Avoiding bad Salmon river fishing practices

[Seanook]

Well I have done quite a lot of river fishing over the past few years and I've seen alot of people using tactics that I have come to find out are either aggressively frowned upon or plain taboo.

I plan on hitting the river up this weekend and the float Rod I ordered wasn't in stock (Nice that I wasn't told this until 2 weeks after placing the order) and this leaves me with my spinning combo.

This has me head scratching a bit as to what method I will use to catch with. I probably will go with a bobber, small hook, rowe or shrimp. Is this an acceptable river fishing technique?

If I used a three way swivel and weighted line with a main line consisting of cork, hook and bait, would this be considered a flossing technique?

I had planned to be Fly or float fishing so I really am not well versed in Salmon run river fish etiquite. When I was a young guy I was tought to use setups that are now obviously used for flossing and I do not condone their use. I was young and nobody told me it was bad. Once I found out how frowned upon it was I never used it again and was never really faced with these circumstances as I just fished mainly for Bass and Pike.

Please, anyone with any advice as to what setups to avoid would be greatly appreciated.

Thnx, Seanook.

[MuskieBait]

You can use the same rigs you use for float fishing. I fish salmon, steelhead and brown trout with float rods and spinning reels. It's just the same, only that it is harder to get a controlled drift with a shorter spinning rod or with a spinning reel (sometimes I take the anti-reverse off and "back reel").

Bottom bouncing is not flossing necessarily. I bottom bounce on the Niagara and all my fish are legitimately taken. In fact, sometimes they hammer your bait so hard it bends the float rod into a semi-circle! If you are just bottom bouncing, and not intentionally drifting the line into the mouth of fish, that is legit. People who are truly using the technique to floss salmon will use leaders in excess of 24 inches such that they increase the chance of the line catching in the jaw of the fish. Again, there is a very fine line between intentional flossing and proper bottom bouncing. Only you will determine that by how you intend to fish.

[Seanook]

Thanks Musk,

I also fish the Niagara quite frequently and used bottom bouncing techniques frequently. It is only once I started reading into fishing the smaller rivers off lake O that I started to hear about guys flossing and how it was done. Some of it was obvious and some of it was a little confusing.

Every angler should want the fish to go after his lure as opposed to just running into it although I can't imagine too many setups that don't run the risk of the occasional floss. I always try to use the least impactful appraoch to fishing and would hate to be one of "those guys".

The line does apparrently seem to be very thin indeed. So if anyone sees me on the banks this weekend and thinks I'm applying a taboo technique......it's not intentional. Like I said originally I have been fishing a long time but I'm just getting back into "the Run" and I have been doing research and asking questions but until I get out there and see what is good and what is not, I'm still just learning.

[OldTimer]

(09-07-2012 05:09 PM)Seanook Wrote:  Well I have done quite a lot of river fishing over the past few years and I've seen alot of people using tactics that I have come to find out are either aggressively frowned upon or plain taboo.

I plan on hitting the river up this weekend and the float Rod I ordered wasn't in stock (Nice that I wasn't told this until 2 weeks after placing the order) and this leaves me with my spinning combo.

This has me head scratching a bit as to what method I will use to catch with. I probably will go with a bobber, small hook, rowe or shrimp. Is this an acceptable river fishing technique?

If I used a three way swivel and weighted line with a main line consisting of cork, hook and bait, would this be considered a flossing technique?

I had planned to be Fly or float fishing so I really am not well versed in Salmon run river fish etiquite. When I was a young guy I was tought to use setups that are now obviously used for flossing and I do not condone their use. I was young and nobody told me it was bad. Once I found out how frowned upon it was I never used it again and was never really faced with these circumstances as I just fished mainly for Bass and Pike.

Please, anyone with any advice as to what setups to avoid would be greatly appreciated.

Thnx, Seanook.

Hey,

The thing that sets "purists" off is the use of any kind of a heavy sinker set-up which may "bottom bounce" the set-up and trailing line along the bottom..... or pull a large hook dropper downstream.

Your suggested set-up of a light float over a free floating sac, fly, or bait -with minimal ballast (a few light split shot) - which would flow downstream naturally and well above bottom - I think is quite acceptable.

If this technique is illegal - perhaps we should close "main land" salmon season totally....... Save a lot of belly aching....... smile.

Besides.......... who actually eats one of the upstream black boots.

Only my opinion.......... I'm sure I'll get "nay-nays"......... But I rarely, if ever, fish upstream for spawning fish.

Cheers,

OT

[beaser]

All due respect but the jerks and scofflaws of the world don't care what they do and who or what they hurt. You can obsess all you want but they will still litter, cut you off, steal, cheat, not pay taxes and have absolutely no conscience about how they may compromise the enviroment. It took me abot 65 of my 67 years to accept that.

I'd also have to say the odds of me snagging anything deliberately are between slim and none and if it does happen it's not going to be productive to dwell on it. I started fishing (after 40 years) about 3 or 4 weeks ago and I was eager to get some action but on reflection, it appears that fishing for any spawning species is a total waste of time and quite frankly not in the spirit of good sportsmanship. Correct me if i'm wrong and I can be wrong.

It sounds as though we are all pretty much people of conscience and if it doesn't feel right then it isn't.

I really didn't want to waste my time at the town docks fishing for crappie, I wanted something exciting and I still do.

[OldTimer]

We all have different takes on what is acceptable with regards to fishing for spawning fish.

For some anglers – the position is vastly different by species. (best example – bass versus salmonid)

Consider these points:

The MNR in its wisdom has established the permitted calendar seasons for many species. Plainly these seasons are established to protect most spawning fish – but not all.

Across our province there are many fishing “festivals” and tournaments timed to coincide with the historical peak of a species’ annual spawn. i.e suckers, perch, crappie.

Initially In Ontario – Pacific Salmon season and catch limits were wide open – no control whatsoever in 95% of the province. This created a very bad situation - trespassing, destruction of private property, littering, senseless fish kills/abandonment, and snagging was occurring all along all the tributaries. Slowly over time the MNR has tried various approaches and mixes of methods (sanctuaries, possession limits, closed seasons). We are where we are today due to the ministries reaction and attempt to please all factions and arguments. It is better than it was long ago………. But I’d say - it’ll change more and get MUCH tighter as we go forward.

I attach a pdf of a May 2006 MNR plan re salmon for your reading pleasure.


  stel02_178927.pdf (Size: 210.03 KB / Downloads: 45)

Worth a ponder – isn’t it?

Cheers,

OldTimer

[MuskieBait]

Here's what I personally believe...

I fish for spawning steelhead because when they are spawning they will continue to feed to some degree. Some steelheads spawn in the fall, but a majority of them spawn in the fall. The steelheads that are in the rivers in the fall are of two possible populations - fall/winter spawners and spring spawners. All of them will spend some time in the river before and after the spawn to recover. You will often find unspawned fish and spent (spawned out) fish at any time of the year.

Brown trout will do so as well, but they usually return to the lake after spawning in the fall time. They also recover in the rivers somewhat but they seem to vacate the spawning streams much sooner. I don't think to many people catch migratory brown trout beyond January.

Since spawning Pacific salmon rarely bites, I fish for them less and less over the years. The only ones I try to concentrate on are staging fish at the river mouths.

I often fish the rivers during the spawning runs for steelhead and brown trout. They often sit behind spawning salmon to feed on loose eggs.

Nottawasaga gets a good run of steelheads. You should try for it. I'm not sure about the brown trout in that river though.

[OldTimer]

Overall my feelings here are the same as yours Muskiebait.

In fact fall fishing for trout is one of my favourite things to do. Yes they do bite lures and bait – I once had a Georgian Bay steelhead chase a Lazy Ike right up onto the shore. Plus - they are in prime shape for both a spectacular battle and for the table.

And I’d also like to point out clearly that I am not against fishing salmon in the tribs. It is legal, it is fun, and you can on occasion catch one following all the rules (I’ve done it)……….. Just do it right, and enjoy the outing Beaser.

I would like to share one last thing here to show what other regulatory agencies have done re salmon fishing laws………. This is a clipping from the current 2012 New York State fishing regulations:

   

Interesting approaches aren’t they?

Cheers,

OldTimer

[MichaelAngelo]

Wow that's really interesting. Snag-proof regulations! Cool find, OT =). It's just a matter of time before we get those here.

I wish they would just put Atlantic salmon back...

[beaser]

Excellent thread gentlemen. The NY regs make alot of sense.