Need better identification!

[MuskieBait]

Hi everyone,

Lately, there are a few entries posted that were poorly identified. Some of the photographs are also not very focused to help with identification.

To remind members the requirement for a valid entry, each species entered must be positively identified with clear photos to show the species' characteristics.

For example, an entry that simply state "Sunfish", "Redhorse sucker" or "Bullhead" is not sufficient. Although I had helped with correcting identification of some generic naming of these species, members MUST enter their entries with a correct ID.

Between MA and I, our vision for this contest is not only intended for bragging rights. We hope to encourage members to widen their fishing horizon for different species, and at the same time "forcing" members to work on their skills in identifying various species you may encounter in Ontario.

Mis-identification of species often leads to various issues...including the capture and possession of species that are out of season (eg. Atlantic Salmon looks very similar to Brown Trout), the misuse of Species At Risk species for bait (eg. Redside Dace, Black Reshorse, Spotted Suck...etc), and killing of native species that are confused with invasive species (eg. Bowfin, Slimy Sculpin...etc) or the transport and release of invasive that should not be done so (eg. Rudd, Round Goby...etc).

As such, future entries that are not specifically and properly identified will be disqualified. Members MUST provide the specific common name of the species.

In addition, various locations may have different common names for the same species. For example, Walleye is often known as Pickerel in Ontario. However, Pickerel is also the common name for a smaller species of fish in the Pike family (Esox). Thus, to remove "confusion", I'm going to further ask members to post the binomial nomenclature, otherwise known as the latin name, of the species. There is no confusion using the latin names.

Thanks for your attention.

[MichaelAngelo]

(05-26-2013 12:34 PM)MuskieBait Wrote:  Between MA and I, our vision for this contest is not only intended for bragging rights. We hope to encourage members to widen their fishing horizon for different species, and at the same time "forcing" members to work on their skills in identifying various species you may encounter in Ontario.

Mis-identification of species often leads to various issues...including the capture and possession of species that are out of season, the misuse of Species At Risk species for bait, and killing of native species that are confused with invasive species (or the transport and release of invasive that should not be done so).

Exactly. Like MuskieBait said, one aim of this contest is to encourage members to learn about fish identification. The Ministry expects anglers to be responsible for identifying their catches.

For example, let's said you catch a bunch of "minnows" in your bait net. The next day you're out on the water fishing with these "minnows" in your bait bucket. You are approached by a conservation officer who asks to inspect your bait. Next thing you know you have a big fat ticket and may even have your fishing gear confiscated!

Why you ask? Because the fish you were using as bait was a species at risk and not permitted for use as bait.

There are some species of "minnows" that are species at risk, for example the Redside Dace or Silver Shiner. To the unpracticed eye, they look almost exactly like every other fish in the bucket. As anglers it's our responsible to know what is what. Ignorance isn't an excuse you can give to a conservation officer.

Hope that helps clear things up! Here's a great resource to get started with identification:

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/regions/central...26-eng.htm

[OldTimer]

(05-26-2013 12:34 PM)MuskieBait Wrote:  Thus, to remove "confusion", I'm going to further ask members to post the binomial nomenclature, otherwise known as the latin name, of the species. There is no confusion using the latin names.

With all respect .......This perhaps should be re-considered,........... I imagine that some of our members are doing their very best using English, one of our official Canadian languages, and which is not their childhood language.

[MuskieBait]

(05-26-2013 01:46 PM)OldTimer Wrote:  

(05-26-2013 12:34 PM)MuskieBait Wrote:  Thus, to remove "confusion", I'm going to further ask members to post the binomial nomenclature, otherwise known as the latin name, of the species. There is no confusion using the latin names.

With all respect .......This perhaps should be re-considered,........... I imagine that some of our members are doing their very best using English, one of our official Canadian languages, and which is not their childhood language.

English is not my childhood language either...neither is latin. I don't know a shred of latin aside from scientific names. It is not hard at all...everyone knows how to use Google and Wikipedia...and for most part Wiki is pretty good.

If you or I were to moved to any other country in the world (Greece, Japan, Uganda, Peru...etc), the same would be required of us to know the local language, understand the local fishing regulations and be familiar with the local species just the same. I don't see anything wrong with that kind of requirement at all.

I always believe this...if you can go on the internet, find an online fishing forum relevant to the local fishing scene, read and understand reports on a fishing forum, ask for specific fishing locations, bait and technique and comment on people's catches and pictures, then you should be able to read regulations and find out species information...otherwise, you wouldn't even be able to participate on an online fishing forum. Language is not really an excuse if you can communicate with forum members in a meaningful way...

For example, I can't even begin to search for, or ask about, any fishing information in Spanish...or Greek...or Italian...strangely yet, I can still find fish names and their latin names, even if they are species in Spain, Greece or Italy...

[OldTimer]

(05-26-2013 02:15 PM)MuskieBait Wrote:  

(05-26-2013 01:46 PM)OldTimer Wrote:  

(05-26-2013 12:34 PM)MuskieBait Wrote:  Thus, to remove "confusion", I'm going to further ask members to post the binomial nomenclature, otherwise known as the latin name, of the species. There is no confusion using the latin names.

With all respect .......This perhaps should be re-considered,........... I imagine that some of our members are doing their very best using English, one of our official Canadian languages, and which is not their childhood language.

English is not my childhood language either...neither is latin. I don't know a shred of latin aside from scientific names. It is not hard at all...everyone knows how to use Google and Wikipedia...and for most part Wiki is pretty good.

If you or I were to moved to any other country in the world (Greece, Japan, Uganda, Peru...etc), the same would be required of us to know the local language, understand the local fishing regulations and be familiar with the local species just the same. I don't see anything wrong with that kind of requirement at all.

I always believe this...if you can go on the internet, find an online fishing forum relevant to the local fishing scene, read and understand reports on a fishing forum, ask for specific fishing locations, bait and technique and comment on people's catches and pictures, then you should be able to read regulations and find out species information...otherwise, you wouldn't even be able to participate on an online fishing forum. Language is not really an excuse if you can communicate with forum members in a meaningful way...

For example, I can't even begin to search for, or ask about, any fishing information in Spanish...or Greek...or Italian...strangely yet, I can still find fish names and their latin names, even if they are species in Spain, Greece or Italy...

Your show.......................

But I do note that there's only 8 of us currently participating... out of more than 400 members.

Is this how you promote more participation.............

[MuskieBait]

Well, you can also ask yourself...

Out of the 400 members, how many actually participate in giving advice and tips, and how many actually consistently provide fishing reports?

The number of members, unfortunately, does not reflect the participation of the members and the quality of participation by the members.

Just like micro-fishing or species-fishing, you can try to create interest and excitement for it, but at the end, it all comes down to a person's own interest to either adopt or ignore it...

However, for those who choose to participate, we do want to make sure they are actually learning about the species they are catching and entering through this contest...and not simply see it as an opportunity to compete or to brag.

It's always a case of QUALITY vs. quantity...Michael and I want to ensure we have QUALITY in entries and the members in turn learn and gain from this...so they can be QUALITY Ontario anglers.

[MichaelAngelo]

I only started glancing at latin names this month... it adds quite a bit to my understanding of fish. For example, I learned that largemouth bass are in the same family as sunfish like bluegill (Centrarchidae... yes I had to search just now to find that name and I cut and pasted that from Wikipedia). It really takes the glory out of bass for me... they're just big sunfish ... just kidding bass are still fun.

I don't expect anyone to learn latin names.

I suggest an "ID Help" thread where members can post pictures they are unsure about and we can work together to ID them. This is why we're here... to help others! If it wasn't for the help I received on forums... I'd still be at a loss for some of my catches. Also, it's important not just to learn, but to learn how to learn... and we can help teach how to learn how to learn LOL

I have faith in this.

[OldTimer]

(05-26-2013 05:34 PM)MichaelAngelo Wrote:  I don't expect anyone to learn latin names.

How bout Enrique Iglesias................smile

[MuskieBait]

Yes, it is helpful to have an ID Help section...and it is very important to learn how to learn. No one is born with knowledge, the difference is if someone is willing to learn and search for information.

You just need to ask the right questions...no one has been asking yet...and they don't really know the resources that are available to them from this forum...if they would only ask.

I would encourage people learning about latin names. Like you said Michael, the bionomial nomenclature actually provide a lot of interesting information. It is originally designed to categorize species and it helps to show the relationships between various species.

As in your example, Largemouth Bass is really a species under the Sunfish family...while the White Perch is a species under the True Bass family related to Striped Bass but only a distant relative to Largemouth Bass. The little Rainbow Darter and Johnny Darter are in the Perch family which Walleye, Sauger and Yellow Perch are also members of the same family.

People see latin names are an impediment and a hurdle...it is actually something that will fully enlighten the curious minds.

[MichaelAngelo]

(05-26-2013 06:14 PM)MuskieBait Wrote:  ...and they don't really know the resources that are available to them from this forum...

And we have OldTimer's Fish Identification guide sitting in the resources section this whole time!! I gotta link to it!

(05-26-2013 06:14 PM)MuskieBait Wrote:  As in your example, Largemouth Bass is really a species under the Sunfish family...while the White Perch is a species under the True Bass family related to Striped Bass but only a distant relative to Largemouth Bass. The little Rainbow Darter and Johnny Darter are in the Perch family which Walleye, Sauger and Yellow Perch are also members of the same family.

People see latin names are an impediment and a hurdle...it is actually something that will fully enlighten the curious minds.

Another good few examples!


MuskieBait, perhaps you can start a ID Help thread and we can sticky it in this section. In there you can put a blurb on how you like to photograph a fish for identification and what you'd like to see for help with ID's.