I did some experimenting today that I probably should have done a long time ago... experiment with a digital scale and my reels to learn what a proper drag setting feels like.
I experimented with two of my shimano reels... an old/crusty Sedona 4000 and a mint condition 3500B baitrunner.
I noticed some alarming differences between the pressure when the drag just starts to slip vs. the pressure during a quick pull.
Old Sedona:
1lb to start slipping and up to 3 lb during a quick pull.
3lb to start slipping and up to 7 lb during a quick pull.
New Baitrunner:
1lb to start slipping and up to 2.5 during a quick pull
5lb to start slipping and up to 7 lb during a quick pull.
So... how do I set the drag right on the Sedona when it can more than double itself during a quick run?
Does the 1/3 the line strength rule of thumb apply to a slow pull or a fast pull?
Or do I just need to fix the drag on the Sedona Razz Razz
I would set it on the quick pull.
When a fish gives a quick run, there is no time to reset the drag. On a quick pull, there is so much force applied to the spool to work against inertia (from a 0 movement moment to getting it to move) that force builds up very quickly. Also, there is more friction due to the quick pull vs. a slow slip. The way you can experience it yourself...take your elbow and drag it as fast as you can across the table top...you'll feel that friction burn very evidently...now, take the same elbow and run it steadily with the same force over the table top for the same distance...and your elbow may experience a little warmth but not a burn. Friction burn...you know.
When you pull line that quickly, the friction increases temperature of your drag. The heat cause the metal washers to expand...and expansion of the washers increases drag pressure. In extreme case, the heat also start to turn your grease or oil less viscous and it could thin out your lubricant so much it starts to squeeze out of the drag material. This may then reduce the lubrication of your drag in thus further increase friction between the materials. Drag pressure will change as your drag stack heats up.
That's the gumming and sticking that you hear about with a hot drag.
When the fish is holding its ground, that's when you need the slow slip. If it slips at a lower drag pressure, you can always palm the spool to add a bit more pressure to hold a fish.
One other factor to consider is...do you have a full spool of line or half a spool of line? The circumference matters...a full spool of line pulls out more inches of line per rotation, but the drag pressure is spread out over more inches of line. With half a spool of line, less line is paid out over the same drag setting...thus there is more drag pressure per inch of line per rotation. That's why on a long run, it is advised to readjust the drag to lower the drag pressure as the line comes off the spool and the circumference decrease.
As much as some people say not to adjust the drag when a fish runs, or while fighting the fish, that doesn't always apply...especially with fish that runs off a huge amount of line in a hurry. For a lot of the local freshwater fish, you likely don't need to readjust drag during a fight since these fish usually don't even strip off 100 feet of line at all...so the drag pressure change is not even a worry.
BTW, that 1/3 rule is just a guideline. The exact drag setting you use could all depend on the species you are after (are they known for long fast runs or short bulldog fight?), your rod action (slow vs. medium vs. fast) and how much lift you put into the rod during the fight. As you lift your rod, the pressure on your line increases. It depends on how you fight your fish sometimes.
What I would do, if I were you, is to measure out drag setting in terms of lb of drag, and then hand pull at a medium, constant speed to FEEL what 15lb of drag feels like for example. Familiar yourself with a bunch of drag settings and then you can adjust on the water to the species you are after and the different rods you may use. There is no single hard rule...and that's where experience often comes into play. Plus, as the fish near that stage where you land it, you often have to lower your drag setting anyways due to the short amount of line between the rod tip and the fish, plus a usually fully bent rod. Fishing heavier drag is where you may pull a hook, snap the line or snap the rod during that critical stage of the fight. Once you decrease your drag, you have to readjust it on the water anyways...so it is helpful to know BY FEEL what approximately lb of drag you are setting. I think knowing the upper limit (eg. 10lb as max limit for 30lb line) is important so you know NEVER to exceed that particular amount of drag by feel.
To be honest, I haven't measured out drag pressure thus far. I always set it a bit lower to err on the side of safety, and then increase it later as I see fit.
I'm always surprised, after landing a big fish, how light my drag actually feels for the size of fish that was landed. That's due to adjustment of the drag during the fight to protect the line from breakage...and often you don't need that heavy a drag at all.
Then there is the variable effect of friction through the line guides and varying rod arch radii and line angle exit and contact area at the tip top,........ and the variable effect of lubrication due to the wetness/dryness of the line,.......... and the effect of ambient temperature on the drag system and mechanical properties of the line, and the varying effect on how quick a pull is due to elasticity of the line, and the varying effect of thermal expansion on the drag adjustment system, and the settings on one rod for a particular reel will be totally different for another rod with a different length or action...........and............and.........and............
A bit too complex for me.
I find that within a few trips using any rod/reel/line combination that I "sorta" learn where my comfort range is for the initial drag setting...... and then adjust/palm/bow and line clamp as necessary on the fly.......... Been workin' out so far.
Besides........... I like a little bit of mystery and gambling associated with fishing............. smile.
Cheers,
OT
(09-10-2013 03:34 PM)OldTimer Wrote: [ -> ]Then there is the variable effect of friction through the line guides and varying rod arch radii and line angle exit and contact area at the tip top,........ and the variable effect of lubrication due to the wetness/dryness of the line,.......... and the effect of ambient temperature on the drag system and mechanical properties of the line, and the varying effect on how quick a pull is due to elasticity of the line, and the varying effect of thermal expansion on the drag adjustment system, and the settings on one rod for a particular reel will be totally different for another rod with a different length or action...........and............and.........and............
A bit too complex for me.
I find that within a few trips using any rod/reel/line combination that I "sorta" learn where my comfort range is for the initial drag setting...... and then adjust/palm/bow and line clamp as necessary on the fly.......... Been workin' out so far.
Besides........... I like a little bit of mystery and gambling associated with fishing............. smile.
Cheers,
OT
^ EXACTLY!
That's why it's good to determine by scale what certain lb of drag feels like by hand, and then do it on the fly...that way I can adjust it based on the different rod and application as needed.
(09-10-2013 04:03 PM)MuskieBait Wrote: [ -> ] (09-10-2013 03:34 PM)OldTimer Wrote: [ -> ]Then there is the variable effect of friction through the line guides and varying rod arch radii and line angle exit and contact area at the tip top,........ and the variable effect of lubrication due to the wetness/dryness of the line,.......... and the effect of ambient temperature on the drag system and mechanical properties of the line, and the varying effect on how quick a pull is due to elasticity of the line, and the varying effect of thermal expansion on the drag adjustment system, and the settings on one rod for a particular reel will be totally different for another rod with a different length or action...........and............and.........and............
A bit too complex for me.
I find that within a few trips using any rod/reel/line combination that I "sorta" learn where my comfort range is for the initial drag setting...... and then adjust/palm/bow and line clamp as necessary on the fly.......... Been workin' out so far.
Besides........... I like a little bit of mystery and gambling associated with fishing............. smile.
Cheers,
OT
^ EXACTLY!
That's why it's good to determine by scale what certain lb of drag feels like by hand, and then do it on the fly...that way I can adjust it based on the different rod and application as needed.
The toughest part of it all is that the same drag pressure is going to feel different depending on the rod used and its length...
So do it by feel while fighting a fish...and not worry so much about setting it by some kind of benchmark (ie 15lb...etc). You just have to play with your equipment and get a feel for it. Match a rod with the reel, tie the line to the leg of a table, and test out the rod and reel with the rod under load, then adjust the drag to learn how much drag is needed to put up how much pressure.
Every fish fights different anyways...and if you are fishing in saltwater, you never know what is going to hit next. You may have the drag set right for snapper...and then BAM, you're on a stingray. What are you going to do? You can never be completely ready for those surprises...but if you stay calm, think with a clear head, and not over react, you can adjust the drag by small degree during the fight and still bring the fish in regardless if you have 5lb or 30lb or drag.
Adaptation is probably one of the greatest asset some of the best anglers have...there is never one system that fits 100% of the time. Some people can just pick up a random rod and reel and still catch fish like mad without having to worry about any of the technicality.
Small reels with little drag has brought in big fish, you know...I bet I don't even have 7lb of drag when I brought in that big cownose ray from its butt end...a little bit of thumbing experience and learning when to give and when to hold your ground can accomplish A LOT!
Like I said before, I've never measured out drag pressure before on my reels...I don't worry about it too much. I don't like to fish with maximum amount of drag anyways unless I need to drag a fish out of danger zone...and if that's the case, I usually thumb the spool to apply that pressure and don't depend on my drag system...your thumb is much more sensitive and can react much faster. I'd rather trust my own sensory and signaling neurons.
(09-13-2013 12:00 PM)MuskieBait Wrote: [ -> ]Adaptation is probably one of the greatest asset some of the best anglers have...there is never one system that fits 100% of the time. Some people can just pick up a random rod and reel and still catch fish like mad without having to worry about any of the technicality.
I agree.
A lot of us tend to over think or over plan things.
Preparation is required, and advised......... but usually when the big one hits - it's wonderfully chaotic............ and BIG time fun. These are my favourite times.
Cheers,
OldTimer