Ontario Shore Fishing Forum

Conservation officers catch two male grass carp, seen as a serious threat to the Great Lakes, in Tommy Thompson Park. The hunt’s on for more.




http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/07/...front.html

I don't know Tommy Thomson park but how would they have gotten into contained ponds? human introduction?

"Toronto and Region Conservation Authority officers found the local grass carp this week while doing routine work at a contained pond at the foot of the Leslie St. Spit. The pond was created about six months ago during construction work, said TRCA spokesperson Elizabeth Oakley. "

In one of the cells, they cut that cell in half and made smaller ponds. I'm assuming thats where they found one of them when electro fishing the trapped fish's that were stuck on the other side.

From what Tangledlines had told me on sunday, he spotted the grass carp on friday in lake ontario waters. I'm not sure if the article is correct to where the carp were found.

Well, they could be where Dave saw them...and then the two could be trapped in the ponds.

I worry about them much less than Silver and Bighead Carp though. Grass Carp doesn't do as much damage and they are not even as terrible as Common Carp in my mind.

(07-29-2015 11:44 AM)MuskieBait Wrote: [ -> ]I worry about them much less than Silver and Bighead Carp though. Grass Carp doesn't do as much damage and they are not even as terrible as Common Carp in my mind.

I suppose that bad things can have "levels". But at the end of the day - all are still bad - and unwanted by every jurisdiction in North America.


Cheers,

OldTimer

(07-29-2015 01:52 PM)OldTimer Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-29-2015 11:44 AM)MuskieBait Wrote: [ -> ]I worry about them much less than Silver and Bighead Carp though. Grass Carp doesn't do as much damage and they are not even as terrible as Common Carp in my mind.

I suppose that bad things can have "levels". But at the end of the day - all are still bad - and unwanted by every jurisdiction in North America.


Cheers,

OldTimer

Never said they are not bad...and didn't say I'm not worried...but I'm just saying I don't think they are as terrible as Common Carp. You seemed to enjoy catching Common Carp. They save a few slow fishing days for you, didn't they?

I think they will compete for the same niche as Common Carp...and each species will keep the other population in balance. I don't think we'll suddenly see Grass Carp take over everywhere and replace every Ontario fish or destroy every last piece of habitat...something that the fear mongering media like to portray.

Let's worry about development of habitat into concrete jungles (creating run-off and preventing seepage into aquifers), unregulated agricultural practices (leaching sewage, fertilizer and pesticides), and input of chemicals, pharmaceuticals and microplastics into our water systems. Those are the real threat to our ecosystems.

But of course, it is easier to blame an invasive species rather than seeking government to enact new laws or ENFORCE them to protect the environment. Just like asking Mr. Harper to bring back The Fishery Act so critical fish habitat will not be destroy in the name of building a pipeline.

Honestly...where is our real battle? Have Round Goby, Rudd, Ruffe and Zebra Mussel completely decimated our fishery? As any Lake Erie or Lake Simcoe angler and they may have varying opinion...

Are invasive species to blame for the toxic blue green algae bloom currently occurring in western Lake Erie? I wonder what kills more wildlife and fish...Round Goby or a blue green algae bloom? I wonder what we should really be putting our focus on...

(07-29-2015 05:04 PM)MuskieBait Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-29-2015 01:52 PM)OldTimer Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-29-2015 11:44 AM)MuskieBait Wrote: [ -> ]I worry about them much less than Silver and Bighead Carp though. Grass Carp doesn't do as much damage and they are not even as terrible as Common Carp in my mind.

I suppose that bad things can have "levels". But at the end of the day - all are still bad - and unwanted by every jurisdiction in North America.


Cheers,

OldTimer

Never said they are not bad...and didn't say I'm not worried...but I'm just saying I don't think they are as terrible as Common Carp. You seemed to enjoy catching Common Carp. They save a few slow fishing days for you, didn't they?

I think they will compete for the same niche as Common Carp...and each species will keep the other population in balance. I don't think we'll suddenly see Grass Carp take over everywhere and replace every Ontario fish or destroy every last piece of habitat...something that the fear mongering media like to portray.

Let's worry about development of habitat into concrete jungles (creating run-off and preventing seepage into aquifers), unregulated agricultural practices (leaching sewage, fertilizer and pesticides), and input of chemicals, pharmaceuticals and microplastics into our water systems. Those are the real threat to our ecosystems.

But of course, it is easier to blame an invasive species rather than seeking government to enact new laws or ENFORCE them to protect the environment. Just like asking Mr. Harper to bring back The Fishery Act so critical fish habitat will not be destroy in the name of building a pipeline.

Honestly...where is our real battle? Have Round Goby, Rudd, Ruffe and Zebra Mussel completely decimated our fishery? As any Lake Erie or Lake Simcoe angler and they may have varying opinion...

Are invasive species to blame for the toxic blue green algae bloom currently occurring in western Lake Erie? I wonder what kills more wildlife and fish...Round Goby or a blue green algae bloom? I wonder what we should really be putting our focus on...

I do enjoy catching Common Carp and imagine I’ll be able to continue in that as the condition is not reversible. I cannot remember a time without them being present in Southern Ontario. But I do think that perhaps things were better before they arrived? Furthermore - I do not wish to see them spread elsewhere in the province/country.

Every problem or concern you mention is due to “our” collective greed, misguided shortcutting and self important conceited desires. Leaders now can only react to the long dwelling and swelling negative actions of the past populations. Blaming specific present persons is ridiculous – they follow the lead and wants of the collective “mob”. Blame the “mob” – aka “us”. As I type I believe that future Canadians will suffer under conditions resulting from actions and processes both you and I naively support presently.

I might also mention that a 40 pound fish is more than just a few weeks old. That fish has been in Lake O MANY years. Which raindrop will they catch?

Cheers,

OldTimer

(07-30-2015 06:52 AM)OldTimer Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-29-2015 05:04 PM)MuskieBait Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-29-2015 01:52 PM)OldTimer Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-29-2015 11:44 AM)MuskieBait Wrote: [ -> ]I worry about them much less than Silver and Bighead Carp though. Grass Carp doesn't do as much damage and they are not even as terrible as Common Carp in my mind.

I suppose that bad things can have "levels". But at the end of the day - all are still bad - and unwanted by every jurisdiction in North America.


Cheers,

OldTimer

Never said they are not bad...and didn't say I'm not worried...but I'm just saying I don't think they are as terrible as Common Carp. You seemed to enjoy catching Common Carp. They save a few slow fishing days for you, didn't they?

I think they will compete for the same niche as Common Carp...and each species will keep the other population in balance. I don't think we'll suddenly see Grass Carp take over everywhere and replace every Ontario fish or destroy every last piece of habitat...something that the fear mongering media like to portray.

Let's worry about development of habitat into concrete jungles (creating run-off and preventing seepage into aquifers), unregulated agricultural practices (leaching sewage, fertilizer and pesticides), and input of chemicals, pharmaceuticals and microplastics into our water systems. Those are the real threat to our ecosystems.

But of course, it is easier to blame an invasive species rather than seeking government to enact new laws or ENFORCE them to protect the environment. Just like asking Mr. Harper to bring back The Fishery Act so critical fish habitat will not be destroy in the name of building a pipeline.

Honestly...where is our real battle? Have Round Goby, Rudd, Ruffe and Zebra Mussel completely decimated our fishery? As any Lake Erie or Lake Simcoe angler and they may have varying opinion...

Are invasive species to blame for the toxic blue green algae bloom currently occurring in western Lake Erie? I wonder what kills more wildlife and fish...Round Goby or a blue green algae bloom? I wonder what we should really be putting our focus on...

I do enjoy catching Common Carp and imagine I’ll be able to continue in that as the condition is not reversible. I cannot remember a time without them being present in Southern Ontario. But I do think that perhaps things were better before they arrived? Furthermore - I do not wish to see them spread elsewhere in the province/country.

Every problem or concern you mention is due to “our” collective greed, misguided shortcutting and self important conceited desires. Leaders now can only react to the long dwelling and swelling negative actions of the past populations. Blaming specific present persons is ridiculous – they follow the lead and wants of the collective “mob”. Blame the “mob” – aka “us”. As I type I believe that future Canadians will suffer under conditions resulting from actions and processes both you and I naively support presently.

I might also mention that a 40 pound fish is more than just a few weeks old. That fish has been in Lake O MANY years. Which raindrop will they catch?

Cheers,

OldTimer

The collective is that WE don't want the pipeline build, and WE don't want contaminated water to flow into the Great Lakes, WE don't want development of important habitat and WE don't want water bottled and sold. But our government cave to pressure from industry and ignore the public needs.

What kind of actions and processes are you and I naively supporting that will hurt future generations? Please clarify so I don't misunderstand your point. It is not very clear at the moment.

Yes, a 40lb fish isn't in the lake for just a few days, and I agree that this raindrop is only the start of a full on shower. But the shower is already coming and it's already too late. Unless there is a species specific chemical that can only target Grass Carp, then there is already very little that we can do aside from fear mongering.

I think the better message from MNR is for the public to be EDUCATED to positively identify Grass Carp (and not mistake them for juvenile minnows, buffalo, redhorse...etc), enforce anglers to empty their livewell and rinse down the boat, and enforce the prohibition of bait transfer to prevent juvenile Grass Carp from being transported into inland lakes. For all the waterways that are connects to the Great Lakes via canals or natural waterways, I'm afraid to say it is already too late. This is a reality.

The saving grace in all this is that Grass Carp requires large rivers and fast current to spawn and establish a population. This is why they are well established in major river systems like the Mississippi and connected tributaries. Some of our larger rivers may be threatened, but many smaller lakes will not. Apparently, they can not spawn successfully in confined water bodies.

http://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/BENE...idella.htm

On the contrary, Common Carp and Goldfish can spawn in a small pond like Grenadier Pond.

In the end, which is the more worrisome of the species? Common Carp or Grass Carp? I would say I'm more worried about Common Carp.

---

I also dislike the collective term "Asian Carp" used to create fear. It is scientifically incorrect to do so, and I blame the US media and the US scientist for propagating that term.

Under the umbrella of "Asian Carp" there are 4 species representing 3 genus. The biology of these fish are different. I'm not going to go through all their differences, but I'll just use one feature, their diet, as an argument since many people are worried about their diet creating havoc.

Silver Carp (Hypophthalmichthys molitrix) - phytoplankton

Bighead Carp (Hypophthalmichthys nobilis) - phytoplankton

Grass Carp (Ctenopharyngodon idella) - vegetation

Black Carp (Mylopharyngodon piceus) - mollusk

Some species directly affect fish and mollusk population, others have indirect effect. Their spawning requirement is different, their interaction with the environment is different, and their tolerance is different.

Media portray this doomsday event does not serve to help the public understand the issue at hand.

(07-30-2015 10:02 AM)MuskieBait Wrote: [ -> ]What kind of actions and processes are you and I naively supporting that will hurt future generations? Please clarify so I don't misunderstand your point. It is not very clear at the moment.

Beats me………….. Because you & I don’t know, else I’d bet we would not support them.

For instance: our ancestors supported fluorocarbon propellants when introduced, they supported CRT tubes, wide scale use of antibiotics, they exposed themselves to source radar signals, etc, etc…the list is long….. Simply because of blind trust, or satisfaction of needs, lack of testing and/or knowledge, and lack of the negative experiences which took multiple decades to rear up.

Who can say today what the extended long term and/or multi generation effects of microwave tower signals, cell phones, laser eye surgery, Viagra, and consumption of poutine with extra cheese curds might result in for our planet's species………check again in 50 years……… grin

**

Back on topic: I do wish that the MNR had simply been more factual and to the point in their comments on this event........... or not said anything at all. At best - They lost credibility.

Cheers,

OldTimer

It is believed that consumption of five extra cheese curds in your poutine annually can decrease smallmouth bass catches by 50%.

I agree with your last statement completely. However, knowing Becky Cudmore in person (I chat with her about species and invasive species over emails in the past, and I provide her records of interesting catches as well) I can understand why she is not straight to the point.

What do emergency personnel do when there is a bomb threat? Yell out "There is a bomb!" or "Everyone, there is an issue. Remain calm but I need you to get out now." Media is trying to yell "There is a bomb!" while Becky is just telling everyone to "Chill out."