Ontario Shore Fishing Forum

My goal in a fishing day is to find a pattern. Fishing with another experience angler and no fish in that area means it is also a pattern to avoid. While someone landing a fish, on their first cast, in an area, the success does not necessary mean a good fishing pattern either. One reason fishing with another experience buddy helps a lot, we fish using different pattern or technique at the start, then fish and explore different areas, at times we might have to go back to where we started, hoping to find a pattern that works for that day.

WFN slogan has been :
First fish caught - a Fluke
second fish caught - A theory!
Third fish caught - A pattern!

A Pattern is what we need to establish, some anglers are talented and work hard to gain experience. A common mistake of a novice angler, they tried to fish the same conditions repeatedly without evaluating what works and what does not work. Since they witness other anglers have landed, they assumed they can do likewise. Unless they know their strength and weaknesses, they will just be committing the same mistakes all over again. Knowing our limitation is one step closer to success!

At times, when I notice more than hundreds of anglers, including me, getting skunk fishing in an area. I just pondered on the amount of wasteful gas, money and time , we all put together, fishing can be a big waste of precious time for many of us, if we do not calculate and learn from our failures.

There are things within our control that we should try to control, if we can focus on these areas, we are almost one step closer to landing our trophy catch :

1. Hook should be sharp enough to not potentially lose our trophy catch.
2.Are we using the right line? Check to find out how much visible is it on certain body of water?
3. Learn to master controlling the movement of our lure on still or moving current.
4. Having proper outfit or the proper rain gear, Read the weather forecast the same Morning before we head out. A fishing vest is always useful to keep basic things such as swivel , hook, weights, tissue, hook sharpener, etc...
5. Untwist our line every often to prevent potential bird nest
6. Drag functioning properly? Drag should be release when not in use
7. Having adequate sleep the night before, so we can stay focus fishing for many hours.
8. Fit enough to hike , especially at the Niagara area.
9. Enough funds save to invest in the right equipment, buy used stuff or in bulk if necessary.
10. Having the right buddy to work with. Is your buddy an asset or liability?
11. Hand cleaner or degreaser, and towel/rag. Equipment maintenance as well
12. Bring only limited tackle for the day use, especially to lighten our load during a day's hike.
13. Try to master only few lures, rather than changing lures each time. Line not on the water is the worse way to fish.
14, Learn to tie different knot fast and efficiently.
15 Study, learn and google info available. Distinguish between facts versus theories.
16. Evaluate our strength, weaknesses, and progress level from time to time.
17, Patience level should improve as we get more into this sport.
18 To be an opportunist rather being a pessimist person.
19. To minimize killing fish (just for the roe), for future reproduction
20. TO FAST AND NOT FISH, COULD BE THE RIGHT DECISION AT TIMES! Learn to cut our loses.



Things beyond our control:
1. FIsh feeding time
2. Weather fluke pattern
3. Changes in weed growth pattern this year versus past years
4. Fishing with wrong partner where personality clash on that same day.
5. Lost fish due to a fight or lost our tackle due to a snag
6. Fish disappeared this week after last weeks successful pattern.


Success in fishing is the process to acquire as many information, then develop proper technique, that will constantly lead us to be more efficient, resulting in us catching our next fish. Thomas Edison is a good motivator we can learn from. While discovering the light bulb, every time he failed, he just realized another ways or material to avoid.

Don't get me wrong. Patterning is good. If you established a pattern, it could last days, weeks and sometimes even months.


There are certain things that I agree with you, but there are finer points that I see differently.

(09-21-2012 06:12 PM)fishfight Wrote: [ -> ]My goal in a fishing day is to find a pattern. Fishing with another experience angler and no fish in that area means it is also a pattern to be avoided.

The only constant in life is that change will happen. What is a pattern one day does not mean it will work the next. Not catching fish today does not mean it is a pattern to avoid. It could just be the conditions are slightly different and you have not figure it out yet. Sometimes, there are just no reason...fish are animals...not machines...and as such, they can be unpredictable.

(09-21-2012 06:12 PM)fishfight Wrote: [ -> ]A Pattern is what we want to establish. If we keep on failing on one spot, with the same technique, than that pattern or area is not good for us. Some anglers are talented and work hard to gain experience, we have to decide sooner or later if we can duplicate that similar pattern, or it is not for us to acquire. If we keep on failing, then it is about time to stop and ponder on what works and what doesn't work. A common mistake of a novice angler, they kept on trying to fish the same conditions, at the same spot, since other anglers landed, they assumed they can do likewise. Unless they know their strength and weaknesses, they will just be committing the same mistakes all over again, for years to come. Knowing our limitation is one step closer to success!

Keep a keen eye and ears and pay attention to detail. If others are catching and you are not, pay attention to what they are doing different. It would be that they are retrieving a lure a quarter of a turn slower. It could be that their jig is 1/8oz lighter. It could be their bait is fresher. Instead of trying to invent sometimes, try to replicate their success first, understand why they are successful, then explore on your own after knowing the basis of success.

(09-21-2012 06:12 PM)fishfight Wrote: [ -> ]10. Having the right buddy of the same level, to learn together.

Fish with not just the same people, or people with similar level of experience, but different people of different abilities. Fish with people who are familiar with different techniques so you can learn from them. Fish with people who are more advanced so they can shorten your learning curve. But at the same time, fish with people who are less advance than you so you can teach them. When you need to explain why your method works, it takes quite a bit of experience and knowledge of your method to explain clearly to others. In the process, it helps you to clearly understand the workings of your method. Sometimes you get challenging questions that you have to further explain, analyze or justify to the less experienced person, such that it forces you to reevaluate what you know, or things you know. Even less advanced people may have learned new techniques you have never heard of, or fished in other conditions you have never tried, or fished in new spots that you were not aware. Never underestimate anyone, and learn from everyone.

(09-21-2012 06:12 PM)fishfight Wrote: [ -> ]12. Bring only limited tackle for the day use, especially to lighten our load during a day's hike.

That may be true sometimes. But it depends on what you wish to do. Are you targeting just one specific species of fish for the day? Or are you just out trying to catch fish? Even if you are just after one species, are you certain they will behave the way you expected? I am always prepared for multiple conditions. I bring generic lures based on my confidence on those lures, but I have a trove of confidence lures. If you are hiking to Niagara (which I have done multiple times), I'm sure you would kick yourself if the steelheads are hitting 4" pink worms and you have none in your pack. I'm always ready for any conditions. My pack is usually about 30lbs. When I travel, Michael has seen first hand the amount of ridiculous tackle I had with me. If you are not prepared, you miss opportunities. Sometimes a few extra lures can get you things you have never expected on your day of fishing.

(09-21-2012 06:12 PM)fishfight Wrote: [ -> ]13. Try to master only few lures, rather than changing lures every time. Line not on the water is the worse way to fish.
14, Learn to tie different knot fast and efficiently.

Confidence is important. It gets complicated here.

Yes, you need to be confident on techniques or lure and establish a few that you know and trust. It is from this confidence that you can experiment to know what works and what doesn't. If you are confident on spinnerbaits and they are not catching you fish, then you need to try out a different location using the same bait that you're confident in. This is the only way to gain knowledge. Or, if you are confident that the location holds fish and they are not biting your bait, instead of second guessing yourself on location selection, experiment on different baits based on previous experience and sound analysis of the situation. If you change everything at once, you don't have a baseline for experimenting. So establish some things that you are confident about, then try new things from there.

Sometimes anglers falls into established patterns and fail to look outside the box. They rely on old experience that tell them if they are under this conditions, at this time of day, using this lure, they will catch this fish. If they are confident with a few lures they should catch fish. This is not always the case. Once you gain a little bit of success, and established somewhat of a pattern, then explore other ways to catch fish. Keep an open mind of what could work. Try other similar locations, similar conditions, similar time of day, similar bait..etc. Notice that I say "similar" and not "same". Only when you experiment would you be able to tune in to subtle differences that makes the 10% of angler catches 90% of the fish.

Learning different knots is great, but rely on just a few. Repetition is the only way to learn to tie a knot properly and fast. Learn to recognized a badly tied knot. If you even remotely doubt the knot, retie it properly. It takes maybe 20 seconds to tie a knot properly, but it only take a couple of seconds for your knot to fail...and usually it is the big fish that will show you that the knot was faulty. Once in a life time chance...20 seconds to tie a knot...you do the math. I have stood at stream side, hands frozen in January, tying the same knot 5 times because I don't trust my knot. Even if my hands are turning purple, I retie until I'm satisfied.

I have just a few knots that I absolutely trust. Uni knot (or uni-to-uni for connecting line), slim beauty/PR hybrid knot, palomar knot, dropper loop knot, Rapala loop knot and perfection loop knot. Each has its time and place, but that's all that I rely on. None of them has seriously failed me yet. I don't need to know a dozen knots that I can't remember how to tie properly. I just need a few knots that I can tie with my eyes closed or in the dark...and tie them quickly when you are on a hot, blitzing bite.

(09-21-2012 06:12 PM)fishfight Wrote: [ -> ]10. Having the rIght buddy of the same level, to learn together.

I don't want to sound negative, but I strongly disagree with this statement.
I know many people (we'll use my brother as an example) who aren't great fishers but at times can storm you in fish caught. Skill is nothing! Here's a cool story, Me, my Brother, and MichaelAngelo were fishing together one day and at first my brother wasn't going to come but he decided to tag along just for some fun for the first hour and a half my Brother completely stormed Me and Michael reeling in a fish every 15 minutes when me and Michael hadn't caught anything yet. As the day progressed I caught a couple and Michael got some follows but nothing compared to my Brother. This is how I see our skill levels in order from least to best. My Brother-----Me----Michael. As you can see Michael is the highest skill level by a decent amount but he caught 0 fish that day, me being in the middle caught a couple of fish that day, and my Brother being the lowest caught about 6 fish that day. Skill can add some factors but does not mean much when it comes to fishing.

Just my two cents ,
Giuga10

Lots of good discussion here. Good thread. Gets ya thinking.

**

And that would be my first contribution in this………. Think.

Think about what you do before, during and (just as importantly) AFTER an outing.

I guess the adage is “We all have 20-20 hindsight”…………. So use it!

Learn from failure as well as from success…….. take note what conditions, actions, presentations and procedures contributed to each.

If you have a favorite lake or river this review should be considered a very wise valuable investment. It will grow and serve to both provide and reward.

**

Secondly……… never let it get stale, or automatic……….. Always do some experimenting each time you fish, doesn’t have to be a lot………..have fun with it……… “Nothing ventured = Nothing gained”.

**

Cheers,

OldTimer

(09-21-2012 08:26 PM)Giuga10 Wrote: [ -> ]Skill can add some factors but does not mean much when it comes to fishing.

I wouldn't say that that skill does not mean much when it comes to fishing. There is a reason why some anglers are more successful consistently than others.

Certainly, there is the odd day when one person outfish another, and this person may have little skills. But if you really analyze what this successful person was doing right vs. the other people who are not doing the things necessary to get bit, there lies the subtle difference that helps 10% of anglers to catch 90% of fish.

There is a lot of idiosyncrasy sometimes. It could be that one person just has that little bit of extra attentiveness, an extra dose of patience (or lack thereof sometimes), an extra twitchy hands to work the rod...etc.

And then sometimes, it is gear difference. Maybe the reel has a slightly higher line retrieve (notice I didn't say gear ratio...but instead line retrieval per turn). Maybe the rod has a faster tip and more sensitivity. Maybe the rod has just the right action to feel the vibration of the crankbait in the water just enough to not work it too fast but keep the lure wriggling just enough. Sometimes it is these little difference.

I've fished side by side with a friend using the same lure before, retrieving the same lure with the same number of turns on the reel as he did, but he was catching all the walleye to my none on the board. Later, I found out his reel has just a slightly lower gear ratio and a slower line retrieve speed...such that even though our hands were moving in exact synchronicity (ie, my point that you need to imitate success), my lure was moving just a little too fast. So instead, I imitated the time it took for his lure to be retrieved, instead of the turns of the reel, such that his lure and my lure were moving at the same (or very similar) speed...and it helped to finally get me bit.

Pay close attention to subtle details, and analyze the situation all the time. Know that things change by the hour and even by the minute, and adjust accordingly.

You guys would have a tough time fishing in the ocean (especially the beach or any kind of tidal areas) when the tide rise and fall constantly, and a spot can turn from perfect condition to unfishable in just the matter of 30 minutes.

Michael knows what I'm talking about, right? Those pesky corbinas on the beach...one minute you have the perfect condition to sight fish for them in 8" of water...a few minutes later the tide comes up more and now the area is too murky and too rough. But constantly having to figure out what to do next is part of the fun.

Luck really comes very rarely into play. I believe that luck is only important or of any factor if...

1) Two anglers are fishing side by side, fishing the same (or similar) gear, using the same technique, fishing the same bait/lure with the same retrieve at the same depth...and one guy catches a few more more or the occasional bigger fish than the other. Noticed that I said "A few more" or "occasional". If the other angler consistently catches more and/or bigger, then there is a reason beyond pure luck.

2) Two boats left port fishing in the same area of the lake and ocean, using the same equipment, technique, bait/lure, same trolling speed...and one boat find a pod of fish and the other didn't. It's a big ocean out there and sometimes fish can either be scattered, or concentrated. If one boat found a scattered school in the blind with no indication of the school being in the area, then that is luck. Otherwise, there are many signs, even in a big ocean, to tell you where fish may be concentrated.

I always believe that "Luck equals Preparation meet Opportunity". Remember this and burn it in your head. That is always one mantra in my fishing. You get lucky if you are well prepared physically, mentally and in all aspect of your equipment, and you come upon an opportunity that you can take advantage. If you are out fishing and the bass are not in the area but the steelheads are biting, and you only have bass lures but missing the necessary roe and other steelhead lures and bait to target them, then you are "out of luck"! Noticed that even the phrase "Out of luck" applies. But if you are well prepared and have a few suitable baits and lures to use for the steelhead, then you are "in luck" because by chance (or maybe not ) you come upon a day when the steelhead wanted to play and you have the right gear PREPARED to catch them. So in turn, you were lucky today because you were prepared for an opportunity and the opportunity came. If a fish snaps your line, it is not that it was bad luck. It might be that your line was too light, or there was a nick somewhere on your line that you were not aware if you didn't check often. People often make or break their own luck. As long as you are prepared, and keep an eye out for opportunities, then you will definitely get lucky. Sometimes, people who are unprepared truly gets lucky...as in if someone was fishing a tiny panfish jig on light line and a big muskie happened to come by to snap at the jig for whatever the reason only the muskie would know...and the fish was hooked in the corner of the jaw such that the line did not come into contact with any of the sharp teeth. Then this would be a lucky break. Even so, for the angler to land the fish on light panfish rod, light line and a tiny panfish jig, it takes a lot of discipline in patience, control and a clear head to fight the fish properly...and that is not luck at all, but preparation in the angler both mentally and physically to take on the challenge.

(09-22-2012 12:44 PM)MuskieBait Wrote: [ -> ]You guys would have a tough time fishing in the ocean (especially the beach or any kind of tidal areas) when the tide rise and fall constantly, ...........

I'll tough it out............ smile

Cape Canaveral Fla. ~1985:

[attachment=269]

Cheers,

OldTimer

Good times OT. Cape Canaveral and you had a heavy jacket on? Or is that just the wind making the jacket look heavy? Or maybe you just have big, strong arms

You certainly know what I'm talking about...tide falling turning the 1st trench into just a bit of water bordered by sand bars...what was fishable for pompano/whiting/croaker one moment is now too skinny to hold any fish. Constantly changing, constantly adapting...part of the fun.

Show us some pics of fish you caught there. You're a wealth of fishing experience having fish so many places in the world. I'd like to see some of your pics and hear some of the stories too.

Some days in November can get a wee bit cool - even around Cape Canaveral and Melbourne, Florida.............. Even us "crazy" Canucks can find it brisk.

Hey and don't forget the storms or high winds - that can totally change the trough profiles, cuts, and bar/spit locations (or existance) in just one day............

I'd say you're the hands down winner on places fished among most people............. but I've got ya on time (so far.........smile).

I only wish I could post more pics............ time, marriages, multiple basement floods, and a small fire have not been kind to most of my "old" photographs or negatives. Plus - do note - in my day there were no digital cameras and the film & processing was not something I really had surplus funds for at the time (today it costs nothing to take hundreds of pics and share them). The very few I have are mostly those my parents took on their cameras - or doubles I gave them along the way.

(09-22-2012 12:44 PM)MuskieBait Wrote: [ -> ].

Sorry I worded that wrong. I meant to say skill doesn't mean everything but it is a key factor. I didn't re read what I wrote when I posted that

My mistake,
Giuga10