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Dialing in on whitefishes - tweedwolfscream - 02-10-2015 05:47 PM
This is an ice fishing question but I know there are some regulars on this forum who are good at it.
I might get to bore an early morning hole or two on Oxtongue Lake this weekend. I have no electronics but I have a depth map, in fact there's a PDF of one on this forum at http://ontarioshorefishing.com/forum/Thread-Fishing-Map-Oxtongue-Lake .
The reason I'm posting is because everything I read online about locating whitefish seems to contradict each other. Shallow? Deep? Drop-offs? Flats? I get that they sit low in the water column, but how deep a water column, and over what kind of contours?
Also, I say "whitefishes" plural because there are both lake and round whitefish in the lake apparently. But I can't find any info about targeting round whitefish. Is there a reason they're less discussed? Are they much harder to catch? Do they pattern similarly to lake whitefish?
Any help appreciated, not just for this attempt on Oxtongue but in general.
RE: Dialing in on whitefishes - Eli - 02-10-2015 07:29 PM
Lake Whitefish are ghosts. Very hard to pattern and even when you find them, getting them to bite can be an exercise in frustration. This is why you're reading contradictory information online -- everyone's experience with them is completely different. When the water temp is essentially uniform (as it is in winter), they can appear anywhere in the water column and relating to specific structure or seemingly to nothing at all. There also are huge populations of Lake Whitefish in certain bodies of water that are essentially uncatchable as their diet consists exclusively of plankton.
It took me two years to catch a single specimen and not for lack of trying!
Round Whitefish are generally not sought after by anglers (except for a few diehard species hunters) so little information is available on them. I know a few folks who have caught them but always in open water. If you get one through the ice you'll be making some sort of angling history, so bring your camera. You'll also be making me super jealous.
RE: Dialing in on whitefishes - tweedwolfscream - 02-11-2015 09:09 AM
Thanks for the reality check, Eli. There are also lake trout and burbot in the same lake but I somehow thought whitefish would be my best bet, maybe not.
Is there a reason round whitefish are not a mainstream target? Are they somehow undesirable, or impossible to catch with conventional presentations? The consumption advisories for Oxtongue have a broader range of size classes for round than lake whitefish, which *maybe* suggests more abundance (and there's a higher maximum size for round).
RE: Dialing in on whitefishes - Eli - 02-11-2015 01:12 PM
Rounds are small, making them much less desirable as table fare. Aside from that, I think they're just very difficult to catch so most people don't bother (even those who are aware of their existence as a species).
Having said all that, I'm by no means trying to discourage you from trying! I think you should try and then report your result here. You never know. One guy caught a pair of Lake Whitefish two years ago from somewhere in QC. One was just over 10lbs and the other was over 8lbs. That's incredible in my books.
RE: Dialing in on whitefishes - MuskieBait - 02-11-2015 09:55 PM
Hey Eli, Michael and I are discussing Round Whitefish.
Lake Whitefish are source of frustration. It is difficult to pattern them. The best that people can do, a lot of times, are leave negative or neutral mood fish and search for active ones. We're marked them on Simcoe before...sometimes all day and consistently waves of them moving through, only to receive zero hits from them. We're not exactly new to the game either. Some of my friends had been fishing them for many, many years. That's just their nature.
Personally, I've caught them as shallow as 30 feet and as deep as 80 feet. I've caught them on flats, shelves, humps, drop offs, slopes, main basin...name one structure and I've likely caught them on it. I've had them hit on very active jigging, deadstick, twitching, vibrating, etc. I've caught them on Jigging Rap, tube jigs, Williams, Bad Boyz, lipless cranks, and even small 1/64oz Marmooska jigs. I've thrown the kitchen sink at them many days and yet came home without even a hit.
Funny thing, I was just speaking with MA today while he was out there...and was getting play-by-play about what funny creatures they are.
We've also noticed a phenomenon. They sometimes appear to be in a negative mood. What I mean by this is that when you have any kind of lure or bait down the hole, you will not even see a fish on the sonar. The moment you reel your line up, fish miraculous appears. Then you are in a frenzy to drop something down the hole, but as your lure/bait is dropping down, the fish would swim away. If you think I'm crazy and it's just a coincidence, a few of us had seen this happen before...not single cases either. Often times, we're having a really slow day and we're constantly changing lures to try to find something to attract fish. Of course, while we're tying on a new lure, which may take a couple of minutes while digging through the tackle trays and decided which lure to wash next, a fish would show up. The excitement and rush to get something down the hole often slows the process of trying the line to the lure, which is why it takes some time. I've even watch a fish just sat there for 5 minutes as I tie on a new swivel, a longer length of thinner diameter fluorocarbon leader and rig up a very light and delicate live bait rig...only to see the fish disappear when my bait finally hit bottom over 80 feet of water. Frustrating, you bet!
Round Whitefish...don't even know where to begin. Michael and I are working on it LOL. They are difficult for many reasons. Lack of information (even to MNR scientists), somewhat nomadic lifestyle, tricky diet (in some lakes they only feed on zooplankton), and a wide variety of habitats. I was just saying to Michael the other day...even if you marks a school of fish that appeared to be Round Whitefish, how could you be certain that you really are fishing for them if you don't ever catch any of them? Some of these lakes have Lake Whitefish and Round Whitefish as you said...plus they may also have White Sucker or even Longnose Sucker. You could very well be fishing over a school of suckers assuming they are Round Whitefish.
With some lakes that are deeper than 100 feet, some underwater camera may not even have long enough cable to lower down for a verification. The fact that you are limited to one spot (unless you intend on turning the ice into swiss cheese as we say) further limits your ability to find their location. The fact that they roam around prevents you from chasing them on the ice.
Open water doesn't make it easy either. Say even if we find them, verified with the camera, in 60 feet of water, you're affected with wind and waves from holding position over the school. Chasing them is still difficult. Presenting anything small enough to entice them over that deep water, is also very challenging.
From what I've seen, most Round Whitefish are caught in stream when they follow other spawning fish to feed on the drifting eggs. In Maine, they often follow spawning Shad and Herring around, earning them the name "shad waiters".
RE: Dialing in on whitefishes - MichaelAngelo - 02-12-2015 03:14 PM
Lake Simcoe aside, and from my limited experience, their presence on particular spots has been sporadic at best. Perhaps the unending zebra mussel and goby supply Simcoe provides allows them linger at certain spots while on other lakes they're constantly moving through areas. I've haven't ice fished very long, but it seems like it's a "right place at the right time" game.
Good luck tweedwolfscreem, get a round whitefish for us!
RE: Dialing in on whitefishes - tweedwolfscream - 02-12-2015 03:21 PM
Thanks for the info everyone, and nice to see you at the consultation the other night MuskieBait. Good to know all this. I'll keep my expectations in check about whitefish.
RE: Dialing in on whitefishes - MuskieBait - 02-13-2015 05:44 PM
Likewise Tweed. Did you enjoy your tour of Ripley's?
RE: Dialing in on whitefishes - tweedwolfscream - 02-17-2015 03:46 PM
Haha yeah that was a nice bonus.
I didn't end up getting out on the ice for whities this weekend, instead I tried some good old fashioned shore casting into a couple of small open patches of fast-flowing water on the Oxtongue River above the falls. Hoping for a brookie but no luck. No idea if it makes sense to fish the open rapids of an otherwise frozen river, but the physical challenges of just getting your line into the water make it fun enough. Hopefully I'll get to use this whitefish information at some point.
RE: Dialing in on whitefishes - MuskieBait - 02-17-2015 08:23 PM
I've tried stream fishing here and there during winter, mostly for steelhead...
I find that fish are usually relating to deeper pools in the winter, unless it's a steelhead on the move. Winter is already a lean time for fish. I would think they relate to deeper pools because:
1) Slower current = less energy expenditure
2) Deeper pool usually don't freeze to the bottom during cold periods
3) Oxygen level isn't an issue in winter (unless the head and tail of the pool freeze to the bottom and stop water flow / exchange)
4) Sometimes there is a spring at the bottom of the pool that delivers warmer ground water
Fast-flowing water has little to offer fish in the winter, even for smaller trout, especially in smaller streams. A large river, however, is a different story.