Fish Dish and Appetizer Recipes

[OldTimer]

(01-07-2014 12:38 PM)MichaelAngelo Wrote:  Dishwasher cooked fish, eh? I have to say I've never heard of it before! I must ask, why not the whole fish?

Small whole fish - maybe.............. but larger thicker whole fish may not cook through evenly or totally.

Try it with a few fillets......... you'll understand.

OT

[MichaelAngelo]

(01-07-2014 05:21 PM)OldTimer Wrote:  

(01-07-2014 12:38 PM)MichaelAngelo Wrote:  Dishwasher cooked fish, eh? I have to say I've never heard of it before! I must ask, why not the whole fish?

Small whole fish - maybe.............. but larger thicker whole fish may not cook through evenly or totally.

Try it with a few fillets......... you'll understand.

OT

Oh I can see that now.

I'm still partial to baking fish but can't figure out how to keep the meat from getting mushy. Last night I had some mushy whitefish (never frozen), but I think I overcooked it. Does lemon juice cause it to get mushy? Or is it simply from overcooking? My grandmother likes to prepare fish in a pan covered in foil, with green onions, lemon juice, olive oil, black pepper, and garlic.

[MuskieBait]

(01-08-2014 11:20 AM)MichaelAngelo Wrote:  I'm still partial to baking fish but can't figure out how to keep the meat from getting mushy. Last night I had some mushy whitefish (never frozen), but I think I overcooked it. Does lemon juice cause it to get mushy? Or is it simply from overcooking? My grandmother likes to prepare fish in a pan covered in foil, with green onions, lemon juice, olive oil, black pepper, and garlic.

When you bake in a pan covered with foil, it prevents moisture loss. It's not that the fish is "mushy"...that is the true moist nature of the flesh when cooked...just like if fish was steamed.

Other cooking methods like pan fry, grill, or smoke draw the moisture and fats out of the fish. The reduced moisture content makes the texture firmer...people calls it "tender"...for some fish, I call it "piece of crap" and "waste of good fish". People tends to grill or fry up grouper and it is a waste of good fish. I like my grouper steamed.

If you overcooked fish, you tend to firm up the meat as more moisture and fats are drawn out from excessive cooking time. It won't get more mushy.

Acid in lemon juice denatures protein, and that is actually how they prepare cerviche (with a mix of citrus juice), but it should firm up the texture. That chemical process is somewhat like cooking process. It should not turn the fish mushy but in fact firms it up. You need a lot of citrus juice to denature protein though...and by a lot I mean the fish has to be covered entirely in undiluted citrus juice. A squirt of lemon juice has little effect...even if you marinate overnight. But if you soak cubes of fish in citrus juice for cerviche, it can take anywhere from 1 hour to a few hours depending on how "cooked" you like your fish.

I wanted to make cerviche in Florida...but we never bought any limes and lemons...oh well...next time...I bet grunt cerviche would be pretty decent.

[MichaelAngelo]

Thanks for the info Ken, that clears up a lot. So what characteristics does grouper have that lend it to being steamed?

(01-08-2014 11:33 AM)MuskieBait Wrote:  I wanted to make cerviche in Florida...but we never bought any limes and lemons...oh well...next time...I bet grunt cerviche would be pretty decent.

Ah so that's what the secret plan was!

[MuskieBait]

(01-08-2014 11:42 AM)MichaelAngelo Wrote:  Thanks for the info Ken, that clears up a lot. So what characteristics does grouper have that lend it to being steamed?

(01-08-2014 11:33 AM)MuskieBait Wrote:  I wanted to make cerviche in Florida...but we never bought any limes and lemons...oh well...next time...I bet grunt cerviche would be pretty decent.

Ah so that's what the secret plan was!

None particularly...I just prefers my fish moist in their "natural dead state" (inside joke). Grouper is very sweet and soft when steamed as you tasted and it has a distinct pleasant (to me) taste that is very different from many other fish. When you grill it or fry it, it draws out a lot of the moisture and oil and the flavour is drawn out...by which point the grouper just taste like your typical bland white flesh fish with flaky texture but too dry for my taste. They call it "tender"...I call it "dry".

Americanized taste buds like bland flavours...as your recall our conversation with Ben...and Americanized fish preparation tries their best to removed any fishy flavours by using bland tasting fish, or using methods that draws out the moisture and oils where that flavour is found, or they over spice it to mask the taste...or they smoke it to hell. If everything else taste like bland cod fillet...why bother trying different fish? Texture certainly is different between different white flesh fish...but most of them are bland as water.

Steaming fish retains most of that flavour. I can taste the different between steamed grunts and that Graysby.

I do have to say...I love pan fried Spanish Mackerel and Bluefish...MMM.

Yes, I wanted to make cerviche...but we kept forgetting to get limes and lemons. I did ask about it one time I think...but we were nowhere near a supermarket at the time I asked.

[OldTimer]

It should be pointed out here that eating some raw fish is not advised.

In fact - it can KILL you.

Never eat raw fresh water fish, or saltwater species caught in fresh or brackish water.

Not all saltwater fish are "immediately" safe to eat raw - certain species are prone to various worms, flukes, and parasites harmful to humans.

To issue a "safe" listing is folly - as it can vary by location and time.

Heads up!

OT

[MuskieBait]

(01-08-2014 05:21 PM)OldTimer Wrote:  It should be pointed out here that eating some raw fish is not advised.

In fact - it can KILL you.

Never eat raw fresh water fish, or saltwater species caught in fresh or brackish water.

Not all saltwater fish are "immediately" safe to eat raw - certain species are prone to various worms, flukes, and parasites harmful to humans.

To issue a "safe" listing is folly - as it can vary by location and time.

Heads up!

OT

Most definitely! Fish from freshwater and brackish water is dangerous to sashimi and should not be eaten raw.

Even fish intended for sashimi that had been frozen for 7 day (as per industry standard) does not guarantee that you will not contract bacteria or parasites.

You do have to know which type of fish to eat raw.

To miminize the chances of parasites, it's best to gut the fish immediately since a lot of the enteric parasites and bacteria are located in the fish gut. These parasites often crawl out of the gut area into the flesh once the fish dies. The quicker you gut and gill the fish, the safer it is.

Cerviche tends to be a bit safer, but if there are bacteria spores or parasite eggs, they are often very resistant to harsh conditions like freezing and acids and they may still survive.

You always take a risk though...many people eat beef tartar...a rare steak...beef, lamb and pork...even with modern use of antibiotics, you are always taking a risk.

I know one thing for certain...never eats Fugu!

[OldTimer]

The recent discussion here regarding smelt fries got me thinking about other amusing cooking things from the past.

The following is a pleasant memory of one such treat that was both fun and quite tasty too:

Clay Mud Spuds:


The lake my family had a cottage on had an inlet near us where the bottom of the lake was bluish gray clay that many youngsters modeled into animals or ash trays or….?

It was also great for use in cooking potatoes in a camp fire.

Process was quite simple – go get a gallon bucket of the mud – wash some medium size russet baking potatoes and prick them a few times with a fork (this pricking is important)……. Then encase them in about a half inch+ thickness of the clay (it must hold together). Place these in the coals of a camp fire that’s been going for a while…… at least an hour+ later – test one immediately for doneness – if ready then pull them out – let them stand 5-10 minutes – crack the now hardened brittle clay carefully and remove (as best ya can with a fork) the potato from the inside to a clean dish……. Add butter, salt and pepper……… amazing flavour with a bit of smokiness.

The blackened skin will mostly stick to the clay…… while some will come off….. it tastes good too…. in an earthy gritty sorta way…..smile.

A real adventure should you try doing this without a good bright flashlight……. And a helper.

Our family typically did this show near the end of a “bon-fire” night as an interesting diversion (as the fire was dying down) that many enjoyed, along with a few stick camp fire cooked hot dogs (or pre-boiled sausages) on a freshly fire toasted (aka blackened) bun with a great big squirt of grainy mustard and some smoky camp fire onions……….

But camp fire onions are another recipe for another time…………….

Cheers,

OldTimer

[MuskieBait]

(04-02-2014 04:02 PM)OldTimer Wrote:  The recent discussion here regarding smelt fries got me thinking about other amusing cooking things from the past.

The following is a pleasant memory of one such treat that was both fun and quite tasty too:

Clay Mud Spuds:


The lake my family had a cottage on had an inlet near us where the bottom of the lake was bluish gray clay that many youngsters modeled into animals or ash trays or….?

It was also great for use in cooking potatoes in a camp fire.

Process was quite simple – go get a gallon bucket of the mud – wash some medium size russet baking potatoes and prick them a few times with a fork (this pricking is important)……. Then encase them in about a half inch+ thickness of the clay (it must hold together). Place these in the coals of a camp fire that’s been going for a while…… at least an hour+ later – test one immediately for doneness – if ready then pull them out – let them stand 5-10 minutes – crack the now hardened brittle clay carefully and remove (as best ya can with a fork) the potato from the inside to a clean dish……. Add butter, salt and pepper……… amazing flavour with a bit of smokiness.

The blackened skin will mostly stick to the clay…… while some will come off….. it tastes good too…. in an earthy gritty sorta way…..smile.

A real adventure should you try doing this without a good bright flashlight……. And a helper.

Our family typically did this show near the end of a “bon-fire” night as an interesting diversion (as the fire was dying down) that many enjoyed, along with a few stick camp fire cooked hot dogs (or pre-boiled sausages) on a freshly fire toasted (aka blackened) bun with a great big squirt of grainy mustard and some smoky camp fire onions……….

But camp fire onions are another recipe for another time…………….

Cheers,

OldTimer

MMM...that all sounds fantastic!

I love corn on cob and sweet potatoes wrapped in foil and placed over ambers. Yeah, that bit of smokiness from the burnt skin adds a whole lot of good flavour to the corn and sweet potatoes.

I know about this ancient Chinese recipe that use mud to encase a whole chicken to be cooked in a pit filled with hot coal. Similar concept. Never tried it since I like my chicken skin not gritty.

I find really good use for those hot dog roasters (wire clam shell ones sold at dollar stores) for foods other than hot dogs. They are great for fire grilled steaks, chicken breast, whole fish, and vegetables such as zucchini, tomatoes, mushrooms, eggplants...etc. They can hold food safely a good height over the hot coal...close enough to cook but not too close to burn.

[OldTimer]

(04-02-2014 04:11 PM)MuskieBait Wrote:  MMM...that all sounds fantastic!

I love corn on cob and sweet potatoes wrapped in foil and placed over ambers. Yeah, that bit of smokiness from the burnt skin adds a whole lot of good flavour to the corn and sweet potatoes.

Oh ya......... sweet corn roasted over a fire or BBQ........ basted with butter +paprika +chili powder + lemon juice + optional hot red pepper flakes............. and blackened a tad

............ goes great with the free beer............ and cajun blackened shrimp


.......... come on summer!

OT