Proposed Changes to Seniors Licenses

[tangledline]

Text Box 5: Potential introduction of senior citizens fishing licences
At present, Ontario and Canadian residents aged 65 and older fish for free in Ontario. This practice is inconsistent with other public licensing systems in the province such as driver’s licences, pilot’s licences, camping fees and hunting licences.
Without licence requirements there are inequities, gaps in the ministry’s information regarding harvest, and the number of seniors that fish. Ontario is also the only Great Lake province or state in which resident senior citizens can fish for free.
The Harris/Decima survey demonstrated very strong support for introducing a discounted licence for seniors. MNR is therefore proposing (Table 2) a discounted Seniors Conservation Fishing Licence and a discounted Seniors Sport Fishing Licence at 80 per cent of the standard fee.
No changes are proposed to the requirement for non-Canadian residents aged 65 and older who currently must purchase an Outdoors Card and a regular-priced fishing licence.
Table 2: Proposed changes to fishing licences for Ontario and Canadian residents aged 65 and older, based on Non-tax Revenue Guiding Principles.
Proposed Change
Rationale based on Non-tax Revenue Guiding Principles
Require Ontario and Canadian resident recreational anglers aged 65 and older to have a valid Outdoors Card and either a discounted Seniors Conservation or discounted Seniors Sport Fishing Licence
• Fair charges: Introducing a paid licence for seniors more fairly values the benefits of the fisheries resource. The fee will go from no charge to a discounted licence fee. Harris/Demica survey results demonstrated that 62 per cent of Ontario’s current fishing licencees are supportive of this proposal.
• Reflects management costs: Introducing a seniors’ licence provides more complete information on the harvest of fisheries resources, and therefore facilitates program planning and contact with those aged 65 and over.
Licence type
Current Requirement
2016 Proposed Annual
Discounted Licence Fees
Example: At 80 per cent of standard licence price, based on 2014 prices
Ontario Seniors Conservation Fishing Licence – One Year
$0.00
Example: $13.17 plus
Outdoors Card ($9.68)1
Ontario Seniors Sports Fishing
Licence – One Year
$0.00
Example: $23.11 plus
Outdoors Card ($9.68)1
1 The Outdoors Card is valid for three years.
Regular cost of an Ontario Conservation Licence is $16.46 plus an Outdoors Card $9.68
Regular cost of an Ontario Sport Fishing Licence is $28.89 plus an Outdoors Card $9.68
Regular cost of a Canadian Conservation Licence is $32.13 plus an Outdoors Card $9.68
Regular cost of a Canadian Sport Fishing Licence is $54.03 plus an Outdoors Card $9.68

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http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/stdprodconsume/...110525.pdf

All the new proposals are laid out in the following document.

Let the complaining begin!!!!!

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When licenses fees were first introduced they were stated to be implemented to improve fish stocking and fish habitat rehabilitation. The fees were not to pay for running the MNR they were for enhancements. The document above does not address this in any truthful manner but instead implies we need to pay for the MNR. The MNR should be funded by our general taxes.

[MuskieBait]

Yeah...I have issues with how our fees are used. MNR should definitely funded by general tax.

I also have issues with charging seniors for a fishing license. We have operated for years without the need to charge seniors. I see this as a "cash grab" as the government releasing the aging population of anglers and that many of them will soon enter 65 or over...that our current fees to support MNR activities will start to decrease as the majority of anglers age.

Sneaky, sneaky.

You can still collect data with a *free* license...you can get population details from application forms. I can see a small sub $5 fee to justify the "application process"...but to charge up to 80% of the regular fee toward seniors...that is really, really sad state of the MNR and government funding...

Grumpy, grump, grump...

I'm sure OT would agree with me...

[OldTimer]

(06-25-2014 01:48 PM)MuskieBait Wrote:  Yeah...I have issues with how our fees are used. MNR should definitely funded by general tax.

I also have issues with charging seniors for a fishing license. We have operated for years without the need to charge seniors. I see this as a "cash grab" as the government releasing the aging population of anglers and that many of them will soon enter 65 or over...that our current fees to support MNR activities will start to decrease as the majority of anglers age.

Sneaky, sneaky.

You can still collect data with a *free* license...you can get population details from application forms. I can see a small sub $5 fee to justify the "application process"...but to charge up to 80% of the regular fee toward seniors...that is really, really sad state of the MNR and government funding...

Grumpy, grump, grump...

I'm sure OT would agree with me...

You are right MB – I do see this as a thoughtless “cash grab” ………….. At the dollar level mentioned with no conditions.

And yes - I also agree that it is being driven by the aging population of baby boom anglers approaching 65 years of age. They also begin to stress the pension plans and health care systems here.

This may surprise you though – I personally really won’t have a problem with needing a fishing licence - but at a more reasonable justified price. But – perhaps 80% is way over the top considering what amount of fishing most 65+ anglers might actually do, and how much they’ll actually keep.

However – for the life of me – I must share that I am very confused in the logic - this move at that price break will severely curtail participation by many seniors who don’t fish a lot……. Thus reducing spin off $..... and loss of a respected “sales staff” who would promote fishing to their grandchildren.

For low income seniors – it will end their angling totally – and this really SUCKS! These people should be considered in any plan going forward.

Furthermore – it might be a whole easier for all to swallow any part of this “initiative” if the premise of “user pay” is filled out a whole bunch more…………… by also adding a necessary and sufficiently quite expensive “stamp” for trout and salmon. (Note: these species comprise the majority of stocking efforts in this province – thus having trout and salmon fisherman “pay as you go”…………. No funding – no stocking, plain and simple)

And………….. if they really want more $ - ditch the lame conservation licence we have – so that we are all properly and correctly equal in all regards – both in the cost and in the catch.

Another thing that might make things easier to swallow on this is to bring fishing regulation violation fines in line with reality – so that system abusers pay “holy shit” whacking big fines for avoidance or contravention.

Grrrrrrrrrrrr……………………. Who voted for these clowns…………… more clowns to yell at…………

WTF.

Cheers,

OldTimer

[zippyFX]

I tend to agree this does seem to be a cash grab;

They should encourage an on-line registration for no cost for a seniors conservation licence. A licence which would only be valid if carried with some sort of provincial ID.

I maybe able to see a discounted costs for a sports licence though....

I would exempt the outdoor card requirement. It's really more of a nuisance than anything else.

[Eli]

I think everyone who fishes should have to purchase either a conservation or a sports license. Shouldn't matter if the person in question is 9 or 90. If you're fishing you're fishing, simple as that. One price regardless of age. I'm sorry to all low income seniors who will lose the opportunity to fish as a result of a licence fee, but there are poor people of all ages who do not receive any kind of special treatment. I was a student for seven years living in debt..where was my break?

What I'd really like to see is a mandatory course for anyone wishing to purchase a fishing license. Similar to what they do with hunting. The focus would be on safe fish handling and proper identification. Too many idiots keeping endangered "carp".

[OldTimer]

(06-25-2014 08:54 PM)Eli Wrote:  I think everyone who fishes should have to purchase either a conservation or a sports license. Shouldn't matter if the person in question is 9 or 90. If you're fishing you're fishing, simple as that. One price regardless of age. I'm sorry to all low income seniors who will lose the opportunity to fish as a result of a licence fee, but there are poor people of all ages who do not receive any kind of special treatment. I was a student for seven years living in debt..where was my break?

What I'd really like to see is a mandatory course for anyone wishing to purchase a fishing license. Similar to what they do with hunting. The focus would be on safe fish handling and proper identification. Too many idiots keeping endangered "carp".

Sorry - I just cant support or fathom the need for kids and the handicapped to be required to buy a licence.

Current ~ seniors anglers have "paid the freight" at full pop for many decades and earned the over 65 freebie presented all that time. And I would imagine the majority were "poor students" along the way as well.

Cheers,

OldTimer

[Eli]

If you're using a limited resource you should be paying into the conservation of said resource. Age has nothing to do with it.

I can also argue that someone who is retired is likely to be fishing a lot more often than someone who is not. I know I'd be fishing a whole lot more if I could retire tomorrow.

And I'll even go so far as to say this: catch and release is a generational phenomenon, with the 'younger generations' being much more likely to engage in this activity than older folks. So yeah, if you're more likely to keep fish -- I want you to pay for a licence.

Walk through any big city suburb and see all the comfortably retired baby boomers. I don't think it would be some huge financial burden to ask that they pay a licence fee like everyone else. I realize a lot of seniors are struggling to make ends meet but so are a lot of people of all ages. Roughly half of the people I see in my clinic are on ODSP or Ontario Works. I assure you seniors are NOT overrepresnted within this group.

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But I'm sure these proposed changes wont go through. The ever growing "Gray Lobby" wouldn't allow it.

[MuskieBait]

I actually agree with everything you said, Eli. If I were to retire tomorrow comfortably, you'll see me fishing every day. If I retire at 65, you'll still see me fishing every day. Maybe then I'll finally catch a River Redhorse...

And I do agree that catch and release is a generational phenomenon.

But the problem I see is a political problem...that the government continued to fail their support of MNR operation costs though our taxes, and seeing that the future license dollar are going to decrease due to population aging...instead of finally owing up to pay for the programs through tax dollars once again, they use the excuse of "poor understanding of senior angling data" and throw in a senior license as a cash grab.

I have no issue with the principle of the senior license...and the way you break it down, I agree 100%...but I don't like the agenda behind the license...

[Bassmaster]

I've got 22 years before I hit 67, the age that the late Jim Flaherty said I have to wait til until I could collect CPP, provided I make it that far. My dad is a senior citizen now and with the current price of gas, his trips have been cut back considerably. Mine have too for that matter, would love to hit Fort Erie or Sarnia but finances dictate I cannot at the moment. I didn't need a fishing licence until I was nearly twenty if I recall.

Even if the powers that be make it mandatory senior citiziens obtain a licence, most if they are smart will just let the Gov't pay for it anyway.. ie HST refunds, Trillium Benefits, Income Tax Refunds.

I suspect the reason younger people are not given a " break" is because it's sometimes easier for them to find work, senior citizens who have good health and want to work a few hours during the week just to get out of the house generally have a tougher time doing so.

As far as " limited resources" go.. it's not the individual angler who has caused it, it's the international shipping companies who dump their ballast water in port and as a result we have been "blessed" with gobies, zebra mussels, etc.

Just my humble 2.54 cents worth

[Eli]

(06-26-2014 09:34 PM)MuskieBait Wrote:  But the problem I see is a political problem...that the government continued to fail their support of MNR operation costs though our taxes, and seeing that the future license dollar are going to decrease due to population aging...instead of finally owing up to pay for the programs through tax dollars once again, they use the excuse of "poor understanding of senior angling data" and throw in a senior license as a cash grab.

I have no issue with the principle of the senior license...and the way you break it down, I agree 100%...but I don't like the agenda behind the license...

I hear ya, but it's speculation at best. I have no idea what the real reason is behind this proposal but, like you, I feel a senior licence has it's place. Whether it comes to fruition or not is another story.

I completely disagree with those who have some skewed sense of entitlement to be able to fish for free just because they've been on this planet for x number of years.