Ontario Shore Fishing Forum

Just like in any kind of data search, academic or not, the same process is required. You need several sources to back up the information. Even in the most reputable scientific journal, mistakes do occur. Papers had been retracted before due to incorrect data. Nothing is perfect...so I would suggest searching through multiple sources.

I don't know what I'm going to do after graduation (have several options, but haven't decided on one yet)...but definitely not in academics. Today's granting system is chaotic at best. If you don't work in a specific research focus that is consistent with the granting agency, if you don't have collaboration with leading researcher in those specific focused areas, and if your research is not translational...very little chance of getting far in the long run. There are too many PhD's and post-docs backed up in the system competing for the limited and decreasing grants and positions...so no thanks.

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As a newbie with little idea, government guides is a start but it is not exhaustive either. There are many less common species that are not described on government published guides. A perfect example is the redhorse species. There are 6 in Ontario, but the MNR guide lumped them into one entry. There is danger in doing so since two of the redhorse species are endangered in Ontario and people often cannot distinguish redhorse species from common white suckers...and sucker species are used as bait in common practice.

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BTW, if you are interested in the answer and the difficulty in ID...this was my reply to my friend Eli's fish ID test.



Okay...here's my try for the center and right heads since Thomas got the family correct. Based on characteristics that I can confidently discern...

Center head:

- Anterior teeth conical and almost equal in size.
- Teeth on lower side of jaw are in rows of two.
- Can't tell if there are tubercles or not anywhere (places I would look are lower anterior section of maxilla and prefrontal bone...can't tell if it's white flesh or white bone :roll.
- Can't see posterior nasir clearly...hard to tell if it is a slit or round...

So that somewhat narrows down to

* Grass Porgy (Calamus arctifrons)
* Whitebone Porgy (Calamus leucosteus)
* Sheepshead Porgy (Calamus penna)

From the shape of the head, if I have to make a guess...Grass Porgy. The other two have much steeper heads.

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Right head:

- Anterior teeth conical and what looks like second and third tooth from symphysis (assuming mandible) enlarged but not outcurved.
- Teeth on lower side of jaw are in rows of two with irregular row of molariform teeth.
- Can't tell if there are tubercles or not anywhere (places I would look are lower anterior section of maxilla and prefrontal bone...can't tell if it's white flesh or white bone :roll.
- Can't see posterior nasir clearly...hard to tell if it is a slit or round...

There's only one in that case...

Jolthead Porgy (Calamus bajonado)

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Head on the left is a grunt species under the genus Haemulon. The orange lining in the mouth is a dead giveaway (pun intended). Haven't had time to analyze the dentition (if possible) to determine the species. But based on common size that is suitable for the table, and knowing the location of capture (Belize), I would say likely White Grunt, Bluestriped Grunt, Sailor's Grunt, White Margate or Black Margate.

Disclaimer: If I'm wrong (most likely), I'm blaming it on "Fishes of the Gulf of Mexico, Volume 2: Scorpaeniformes to Tetraodontiformes"

Just for fun re: the dinner pic from above...

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From bigminnowfisher on SCSF:

Thanks for playing ya'll! Some of you came pretty darn close, and I'm super impressed... and thanks for taking it to a whole new level, Ken! LOL

Anyways, for you ID nuts, heres the pre-mortem photographs of the fish. Let's see if you can get the species ID now!



My fish, on the very right in the dinner pic.



Friend's fish, in the middle in the dinner pic.

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From MuskieBait's response:

I already know the Bluestriped Grunt...what are the two porgies?

It's getting more confusing now with these pictures...

Center head is a Sheepshead Porgy if the horizontal groove on upper lip is indeed present and not a photographic artifact...BUT...the fish also has that characteristic V-shape at the base of the caudal fin...and that bar right across the eye going all the way to the corner of the mouth...which is consistent with Grass Porgy...but head just seems a bit too shallow of an angle to be a Grass Porgy...

Right head is a bit confusing now...Blue line under the eye, enlarged upper canines...that suggests Saucereye...it's the lower enlarged teeth that confuse me...it's 2nd and 3rd tooth for Jolthead...or 3rd and/or occasionally 4th tooth for Saucereye...unless there is some photographic angle hiding teeth somewhere...

My classmate's first fish, on the left in the dinner pic.

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From bigminnowfisher on SCSF:

Glad you pointed out the inconsistencies!

I had seriously thought the center head was a Grass Porgy, until I examined the postmortem pictures. And I was pretty sure the right head was a Saucereye, until I examined the teeth... So I guess it's a lesson that fish don't always follow books! I'm going with the ID that the majority of characteristics point towards though, so thats going to be Grass Porgy and Saucereye.

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Lesson? FishID is not always easy...even with the best available resources...and sometimes the fish may not follow all characteristics, especially where hybrids may exist. This exercise was meant to be a challenge though...and a fun one at that!

Freshwater fish in Ontario is so much easier for most species. When you get to the minnow species, it gets a bit more challenging, but most gamefish species are very easy to identify.