+- Ontario Shore Fishing Forum (http://ontarioshorefishing.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Ontario Shore Fishing General Discussion (/Forum-Ontario-Shore-Fishing-General-Discussion)
+--- Forum: General Discussion (/Forum-General-Discussion)
+--- Thread: Going forward in 2017 at OSF - 1 (/Thread-Going-forward-in-2017-at-OSF-1)
RE: Going forward in 2017 at OSF - 1 - OldTimer - 01-29-2017 07:34 AM
(01-29-2017 03:46 AM)MuskieBait Wrote:(01-28-2017 08:44 AM)OldTimer Wrote: Citing the accomplishments of 2 members from a sea of 2000+ members should be pondered a while regarding what evidence it provides regarding the popularity of the contest.
Only 4 members participated............. ZippyFX, FossilFish, MA and I.
We need to do something different - else we will have the same dismal participation going forward.
Zippy’s suggestion of several categories provides for all levels of “willingness” to participate – without prejudice.
As you point out - One must be willing to try new things, and changes.
As always………………. opinions vary…………..
Cheers,
OldTimer
OT...you mentioned that when I cited 2 members that were encouraged to experiment out of the 2000+ members on OSF as bad evidence...
Well, let me ask you...how many members out of that 2000+ regularly even contribute a fishing report regularly...a discussion on technique regularly...or simply a "nice catch" regularly on the latest fishing reports? What's the percentage of that? I think you need to compare contest participating members as a fraction of ACTIVE members...not those 16'ers that came and went and never seen again. That's not a fair comparison at all.
Let's count the number of members who posted one or more fishing report in 2016. The new members posting their first report is not included...you and I know very well that the first report is just a means to gain entry into the report section. The vast majority of members who had posted their first report never posted again. So they are excluded here.
Here goes...active contributor to fishing reports since Jan 2016:
Oldtimer, tweedwolfscream, Muskiebait, PUMPKNOWS, Deadfisher, Toasty, zippyFX, Eli, ST_ShoreFisher, wknd outdoorsman
And I'll include FossilFish because he was definitely in the contest and fishing.
So that's 11 members! All YEAR! Heck? You think there's a low participation issue with the contest? How about general low engagement issue with the forum? Maybe we should change that first before dealing with the contest. Those who are not willing to even hang around the forum certainly won't be here to enter a silly contest just for bragging rights. They may not even want to be engaged in the first place, besides asking for new fishing locations or looking up the latest fishing report to find the latest hot action.
So if you REALLY want to crunch the numbers to give you a representative picture, you have 4 members in the contest out of 11 active members. Heck...that's 36.36%! And out of that, 2 members (18.18%) were influenced by the contest to diversify their fishing...realizing the goal that MA and I hoped to accomplished with the contest. Man, that's AWESOME! If MA and I were to actually join in (which I voluntarily opted out to make the playing field fair and achieveable)...that's even greater participation.
But hey, where's our fearless leader MA throughout this year? Without leadership and a vision, the group simply falls apart...
Consider this...in 2012 and 2013, when the contest was first introduced, there were 9 participants. But out of those 9, some member, like Guiga10, Onwind and McFly, had not posted consistently, or at all, for the past couple of years. Where did they go? Why are they not engaged in the forum like they were in the past?
I've seen really great forums fall apart...when some core members got busy, got married, had kids, bought a house, grew up, moved away, changed fishing interest...and the forum just fell apart. It happens...more often than you think...especially for niche or grass root group like here.
So the low participation in the contest is simply a reflection of low forum engagement in general. Unless you use prizes to draw people to it.
Now...let's say you were right...and your argument is valid that perhaps there are more members interested (which I've shown with DATA to be contrary to the argument)...
You can't please everyone...and you can't make it all an even playing field.
Let's consider the proposed categories, shall we? I am very openminded, after all.
Standard - Compare Thames River with over 40 standard species vs. Haliburton Lake with only 8 standard species. How is it possible for us to make it a level playing field for a member who lives in Haliburton, but not wiling to drive a hour or two to reach more species rich waters?
Micro - Again, northern waters is relative poor in diversity compared to the north....even though most people think micros give an unfair advantage.
Fly - Let's just consider rivers alone. North shore Huron trib vs. Grand River. No comparison. I can outfish you on the fly with "trash fish" on the Grand before you even catch 5 species on the fly on a north shore Huron trib...
Icefishing - Should we discuss how North Bay season starts in mid-December and ends in mid-April vs southern Ontario where we are barely even able to get on the ice for the past couple of winters? Where's the fairness and level playing field? Should we discuss how plentiful fish are in the northern lakes, while members can barely catch a 1h north of GTA walleye through the ice?
Anything else?
Fact is...you can't level the playing field...unless you fish on the same lake or river as a venue. When you are doing an online contest, there will always be advantages and disadvantages. Some will be advantageous for you, and some will be against you.
And that's why we decided to keep prizes out of this contest. That's why it's just for fun. And participation is just to challenge members to beat their personal best or chase the board leader. If you include prizes, and the playing field is not level, then you have constant whining that it isn't fair. Then you end up with a bass contest in the very end.
If distance is too far and you don't want to drive to catch a number of species for a silly online contest, you simply won't do it.
I'll tell you what's the cause of the low participation...the lack of material prizes. It's been brought up before by other members...and even MA. People don't want to waste time and money on a silly contest just for bragging rights.
I'll bet you...if there is a nice fishing combo, a sonar or a boat as a prize, there will be people participating and there will be more people fishing for silly little micros just to win those prizes! Why do you think people enter salmon derby and bass tournaments? Because there's a material or monetary reward. Heck, they would even PAY to enter those contest even if they chances of winning is against them. People do cost benefit analysis in their heads all the time...and the cost to gain bragging rights is just not equal to the benefit. But hey, if the cost was gas but the benefit was potentially a boat...it's a whole different ball game.
People will make excuses...
Heck, people drive further than a couple of hours just to try to catch a walleye for a meal on a weekend trip...or a big bass to brag about at the water cooler on Monday. People drive all the way to Nipissing just to try to catch their first walleye. People spent 2 years or more on Simcoe just trying to catch a Lake Whitefish through the ice. All that money spend with little reward...yet they persist. If people value something, and there's a will, there's a way. It's all about MOTIVATION.
Wow.
........ so really...what's your point?.... we changing things then?
Cheers,
OldTimer
RE: Going forward in 2017 at OSF - 1 - MuskieBait - 01-29-2017 12:35 PM
(01-29-2017 07:34 AM)OldTimer Wrote: Wow.
........ so really...what's your point?.... we changing things then?
Cheers,
OldTimer
My point is...most of the member are like jimpete here.
jimpete join the forum on 06-23-2016 and posted an initial welcome post.
http://ontarioshorefishing.com/forum/Thread-New-from-Fergus
He posted one post to ask for help. He waited for 5 days and not a reply.
http://ontarioshorefishing.com/forum/Thread-Best-place-for-perch
When 4got10 replied, even naming a particular lake to try, jimpete didn't even bother to reply or say thanks.
jimpete was last on the forum on 07-05-2016. He should have seen that reply, right? He could hang around, right?
Where is he now?
You want a real hard look for reflection? Most of the registrants to OSF are just here to ask a very specific question about a very specific fishing area. And well, most of us don't have an idea. Some of us are too busy to reply.
Where's the engagement? Where's the participation?
This group started out as a grass root group with the bulk of the members around GTA area, especially Markham. You have people like prime89, Guiga10, McFly, onwind, Jeremy Green and MA in that area. And heck, people used to post often. But where are they now? Why are they not contributing anymore? There used to be almost a post a day from one if not more from that group.
But if you look back into the history, this forum has always maintained a low engagement issue. Reports often had fewer than than 10 reply posts. Discussion post are not any different either. What has changed really? It's always been a little slow always and we're struggle to attract people, despite how helpful most active members tried to be.
And you mentioned that people don't want to catch small fish or bother entering them...
Look at past contests, especially in the initial 2 years when there is the greatest participation. Look at what contestants had entered most often.
http://ontarioshorefishing.com/forum/Forum-2013-Multi-Species-Challenge
http://ontarioshorefishing.com/forum/Forum-2014-Multi-Species-Challenge
Did anyone entered much in terms of other game fish? Sure, you have the share of Pike, Bass, Catfish, Trout, Carp, Sucker...etc. But most of the members posted a few times, then quit. No one had the motivation to keep it up. And look more carefully, you'll find that the bulk of the entries consisted of smaller fish - panfish, minnows and yes...undersized gamefish.
When MA and I originally designed the contest, we wanted to include all species, big and small. It is not only because we want member to diversify but most importantly we realized that shore fishing isn't easy...and most of the time, you catch smaller fish.
Need proof? Here's a discussion...
http://ontarioshorefishing.com/forum/Thread-Professors-lake
We want participation so we don't set a minimum size limit for each species. We actually want to make the playing field fair so some kid in a neighbourhood pond can enter his/her fish, and it is just as significant as a season angler who entered a 20lb salmon. What want to make it so that someone new to fishing can catch a 6" Largemouth Bass and entered it with similar value and significance as a season angler who entered a 5lb Largemouth Bass from the same lake. We want to make it so that someone who doesn't live in an area with migratory Rainbow Trout and equally enter a 5" resident Rainbow Trout with equal weight, so that this person from Port Perry don't have to drive to Oshawa to compete with someone from Nottawasaga for big Rainbow Trout at their doorstep...because driving distance is often a factor.
Isn't that what we are striving for? That everyone can participate?
If we limit the entry with a 8" minimum, you actually cut out even more participation. With the minimum size rule, people can't enter that 7" Bluegill or that 5" Pumpkinseed they just caught. Nope sorry...3" Round Goby or 5" Creek Chub will be refused. Honestly, look carefully at participation in past contest...and just imagine how it would go now with that restriction.
Hey OT, let's review your 2015 entry...and see how that affects your own participation with the 8" rule, shall we not?
http://ontarioshorefishing.com/forum/Thread-OldTimer-s-2015-MSC-entries
You wouldn't be able to enter 4 of your 10 entries with that rule...and you wouldn't be able to compete with someone like me who has easy and consistent access to 8"+ Rainbow Trout consistently two runs a year. Now...would that be fair?
We try to be accommodating to people to encourage participation, did we not? We got rid of the logo requirement. We did away with time stamp. Heck, I don't even pick on people for not naming their fish sometimes...or having their fish held in the hand obstructing ID features. We've made it as easy and as non-discriminating as possible for people to participate. What else needs to be done?
And then, and then...look at the participants in the past contests. Where are they now? Why are they not around at all? Who is contributing anymore?
Even when people asked questions and received answers, they disappear for long stretches...
http://ontarioshorefishing.com/forum/Thread-New-to-fishing-and-Oshawa-Creek
Hey, I replied the very last question honestly and without any intent to hide anything. But where's the follow up? Why isn't Henry2244 asking for more on current techniques or timing?
Then you have type of discussion like this. Are we just being rude or ignorant not replying? Or is it simply that most of the active members here don't even fish at Tommy Thompson Park anymore? Is anyone to blame that the reality of our active membership is spread across Ontario?
http://ontarioshorefishing.com/forum/Thread-lost-rod-tommy-thompson-park
Can we really build a community when members simply don't want to engage or cannot engage? There had been many reasons given. Like lack of knowledge, lack of success, lack of fishing, living too far. But heck, can't members even read reports and say "nice catch" once in a while to communicate?
I mean, look at this...no one even replied. (Yes, I am to blame too...but I was in Asia at the time without any internet)
http://ontarioshorefishing.com/forum/Thread-A-Nice-November-Afternoon-Looking-for-Redhorse
OK. Redhorse isn't everyone's cup of tea...but Walleye should be, right? And yet, same old active members engaging only. Where's anyone else? It's a timely report and extremely relevant shore fishing experience...with a spanking nice fish photo! Where are those people who want to be here to learn how to find these fish on their own?
http://ontarioshorefishing.com/forum/Thread-Kawartha-walleye-report-November-10-2016
Hell, we even have the most popular sportfish in a report...from a marina in the GTA! And two members replied? Really?
http://ontarioshorefishing.com/forum/Thread-Last-Bass-Action-for-2016
Look hard in the mirror and reflect.
To be honest, we're really just preaching to the choir here.
RE: Going forward in 2017 at OSF - 1 - OldTimer - 01-29-2017 03:28 PM
(01-29-2017 12:35 PM)MuskieBait Wrote:(01-29-2017 07:34 AM)OldTimer Wrote: Wow.
........ so really...what's your point?.... we changing things then?
Cheers,
OldTimer
My point is...most of the member are like jimpete here.
jimpete join the forum on 06-23-2016 and posted an initial welcome post.
http://ontarioshorefishing.com/forum/Thread-New-from-Fergus
He posted one post to ask for help. He waited for 5 days and not a reply.
http://ontarioshorefishing.com/forum/Thread-Best-place-for-perch
When 4got10 replied, even naming a particular lake to try, jimpete didn't even bother to reply or say thanks.
jimpete was last on the forum on 07-05-2016. He should have seen that reply, right? He could hang around, right?
Where is he now?
You want a real hard look for reflection? Most of the registrants to OSF are just here to ask a very specific question about a very specific fishing area. And well, most of us don't have an idea. Some of us are too busy to reply.
Where's the engagement? Where's the participation?
This group started out as a grass root group with the bulk of the members around GTA area, especially Markham. You have people like prime89, Guiga10, McFly, onwind, Jeremy Green and MA in that area. And heck, people used to post often. But where are they now? Why are they not contributing anymore? There used to be almost a post a day from one if not more from that group.
But if you look back into the history, this forum has always maintained a low engagement issue. Reports often had fewer than than 10 reply posts. Discussion post are not any different either. What has changed really? It's always been a little slow always and we're struggle to attract people, despite how helpful most active members tried to be.
And you mentioned that people don't want to catch small fish or bother entering them...
Look at past contests, especially in the initial 2 years when there is the greatest participation. Look at what contestants had entered most often.
http://ontarioshorefishing.com/forum/Forum-2013-Multi-Species-Challenge
http://ontarioshorefishing.com/forum/Forum-2014-Multi-Species-Challenge
Did anyone entered much in terms of other game fish? Sure, you have the share of Pike, Bass, Catfish, Trout, Carp, Sucker...etc. But most of the members posted a few times, then quit. No one had the motivation to keep it up. And look more carefully, you'll find that the bulk of the entries consisted of smaller fish - panfish, minnows and yes...undersized gamefish.
When MA and I originally designed the contest, we wanted to include all species, big and small. It is not only because we want member to diversify but most importantly we realized that shore fishing isn't easy...and most of the time, you catch smaller fish.
Need proof? Here's a discussion...
http://ontarioshorefishing.com/forum/Thread-Professors-lake
We want participation so we don't set a minimum size limit for each species. We actually want to make the playing field fair so some kid in a neighbourhood pond can enter his/her fish, and it is just as significant as a season angler who entered a 20lb salmon. What want to make it so that someone new to fishing can catch a 6" Largemouth Bass and entered it with similar value and significance as a season angler who entered a 5lb Largemouth Bass from the same lake. We want to make it so that someone who doesn't live in an area with migratory Rainbow Trout and equally enter a 5" resident Rainbow Trout with equal weight, so that this person from Port Perry don't have to drive to Oshawa to compete with someone from Nottawasaga for big Rainbow Trout at their doorstep...because driving distance is often a factor.
Isn't that what we are striving for? That everyone can participate?
If we limit the entry with a 8" minimum, you actually cut out even more participation. With the minimum size rule, people can't enter that 7" Bluegill or that 5" Pumpkinseed they just caught. Nope sorry...3" Round Goby or 5" Creek Chub will be refused. Honestly, look carefully at participation in past contest...and just imagine how it would go now with that restriction.
Hey OT, let's review your 2015 entry...and see how that affects your own participation with the 8" rule, shall we not?
http://ontarioshorefishing.com/forum/Thread-OldTimer-s-2015-MSC-entries
You wouldn't be able to enter 4 of your 10 entries with that rule...and you wouldn't be able to compete with someone like me who has easy and consistent access to 8"+ Rainbow Trout consistently two runs a year. Now...would that be fair?
We try to be accommodating to people to encourage participation, did we not? We got rid of the logo requirement. We did away with time stamp. Heck, I don't even pick on people for not naming their fish sometimes...or having their fish held in the hand obstructing ID features. We've made it as easy and as non-discriminating as possible for people to participate. What else needs to be done?
And then, and then...look at the participants in the past contests. Where are they now? Why are they not around at all? Who is contributing anymore?
Even when people asked questions and received answers, they disappear for long stretches...
http://ontarioshorefishing.com/forum/Thread-New-to-fishing-and-Oshawa-Creek
Hey, I replied the very last question honestly and without any intent to hide anything. But where's the follow up? Why isn't Henry2244 asking for more on current techniques or timing?
Then you have type of discussion like this. Are we just being rude or ignorant not replying? Or is it simply that most of the active members here don't even fish at Tommy Thompson Park anymore? Is anyone to blame that the reality of our active membership is spread across Ontario?
http://ontarioshorefishing.com/forum/Thread-lost-rod-tommy-thompson-park
Can we really build a community when members simply don't want to engage or cannot engage? There had been many reasons given. Like lack of knowledge, lack of success, lack of fishing, living too far. But heck, can't members even read reports and say "nice catch" once in a while to communicate?
I mean, look at this...no one even replied. (Yes, I am to blame too...but I was in Asia at the time without any internet)
http://ontarioshorefishing.com/forum/Thread-A-Nice-November-Afternoon-Looking-for-Redhorse
OK. Redhorse isn't everyone's cup of tea...but Walleye should be, right? And yet, same old active members engaging only. Where's anyone else? It's a timely report and extremely relevant shore fishing experience...with a spanking nice fish photo! Where are those people who want to be here to learn how to find these fish on their own?
http://ontarioshorefishing.com/forum/Thread-Kawartha-walleye-report-November-10-2016
Hell, we even have the most popular sportfish in a report...from a marina in the GTA! And two members replied? Really?
http://ontarioshorefishing.com/forum/Thread-Last-Bass-Action-for-2016
Look hard in the mirror and reflect.
To be honest, we're really just preaching to the choir here.
Wow 2.
So - you vote to leave things exactly as is - to make things better.
That's cool.
I vote for some sort of change.
See.......... opinions do vary. (grin)
Cheers,
OldTimer
RE: Going forward in 2017 at OSF - 1 - Giuga10 - 01-29-2017 05:58 PM
I'm still here, just don't have much to contribute anymore. I almost exclusively fish for bass and haven't had much to say anymore, if I catch a question on the topic I may engage but it doesn't happen often here so I just lurk.
As far as this thread goes, I wholeheartedly agree with OT. With anglers such as Muskie and Zippy it makes this competition quite daunting. I respect your guys niche, and agree that anglers should sometimes step out of their comfort and explore, but the micro category is an extreme. Some people just don't have interest in it, it takes a certain type of person to go out of their way in search of a darter or a stickleback.
If we want to see more participation in these competitions we have to make it more inclusive to the average angler. And same goes for this forum as well, I've watched it for the past 4 years or so and it is stagnating, it is turning into that of a roughfishers forum. Which don't get me wrong, roughfishing is not a bad thing, but for your average angler, its is intimidating to join a forum that seems to be a simple community about shore anglers getting together and find most of the topics entailing species and techniques one has never heard of before. It's the reason I don't really participate anymore, the forum has gotten repetitive, there is no diversity anymore.
If I can offer my two cents of something that should be changed or added. I believe that a sub category or sub forum (whatever it's called) should be added for the topic of roughfishing. This would help open up the other subforums for more standard questions and leave everything regarding the roughfishing topic to an area where it can all be found.
Anyways,
Cheers.
RE: Going forward in 2017 at OSF - 1 - MuskieBait - 01-29-2017 09:32 PM
Guiga, what you said is true. No doubt about it. But if you want to steer this forum back into a forum where members can relate, then post your bass report. Ask question about how you can catch more bass from shore. But see, that's the issue...you think you have nothing to contribute so you just did nothing. And so is a lot of members.
Michael kayak fish a lot more now, and thinks there's nothing relevant...so he doesn't post.
I fish more for species now and if you look at the last year, I haven't been posting much at all. I figure members don't want to really see yet another redhorse or yet another micro. So I don't post.
So nobody post anymore.
As cliche as it sounds, if you want to see change, that change should start with you. Don't look for others to make the change...because otherwise everyone is standing around waiting for someone to do something.
That's how roughfish got into that state. When I was there, I got ridiculed for posting yet another trout report...or bass report...or whatever. We never discouraged OSF members from posting reports...shore, boat, kayak, ice...whatever. It's all fishing and it's all good. I don't know why there's that impression at all. Yes, we encourage people to try for something different...but is Common Carp so different? Heck, I just put up an icefishing report with Walleye, Pike, Yellow Perch and Pumpkinseed. That's as mainstream as you can get. And yet, who really commented on it?
When you said other anglers want topics about mainstream species, ask yourself why you fished off a boat now for bass, pike and muskies. Because you know, from experience, that fishing from shore for those species and consistently obtain success is not easy. But rather, anyone can go to a pond in Markham and fish from Common Carp or Brown Bullhead from shore. It's attainable. It's achievable. Anyone can go down to the Don River or Humber River to catch White Sucker during the run from shore. Anyone can go catch Sunfish and Rockbass. Anyone can go down the the Grand can pull on a 2-3lb Channel Catfish. Heck, anyone can fish a stream for minnows from shore. That's what this forum is about, right? Shorefishing? Had we ever discouraged people ever from doing that? Have we ever really diverged from it?
Fact is...most people fishing from shore have a hard time catching that 5lb Largemouth Bass. So instead, we suggest other easily attainable species to catch so they can have some success. We're not niche. We're trying to help people just catch some fish. It may not be the Musky or the Lake Trout or that Walleye...but anyone fishing long enough knows that these species are difficult at best, impossible at worst, to catch from shore. This is Ontario Shore Fishing after all.
And simply, shore fishing requires time and experience. It seems many people are here just for the quick info...and even when suggestions are given, they never reported back on how they did. They never put in the time to actually learn it.
Forums has always been about standard questions. Dropshotting, whether with a nightcrawler for drum, or a plastic for bass, is the same. People just make things too complicated and technical when it comes to fishing. There's never really any niche.
As for the competition, I've participated once out of the 5 contests we've had...so don't put that blame on me that members feel it's a daunting task. I purposely withheld my participation for that reason.
If you want change, then it has to start with you. Post more reports, write more articles, and participate in the contest. All I hear is that "Now I'm bass fishing with nothing to contribute." THAT is not helping...
OT - if you want to see a change, donate a fishing camp package as a prize...and see how quickly word spreads and participation increases. You'll also see how people will get desperate and start micro fishing just to win a fishing camp package. I will bet my Rapala travel rod on it!
Without a prize, nothing really would change. It's not like I'm preventing the members from entering because they think they have no chance. I haven't been participating most of the time...period.
I really don't know what else to do to shake it up. When you limit the contest to only bigger species you'll end up with every member catch similar number of species...who's the winner when no one else want to catch anything other than Bass, Walleye, Pike, Trout and Salmon?
RE: Going forward in 2017 at OSF - 1 - Giuga10 - 01-30-2017 12:27 AM
I exclusively fish from a Bass boat so I feel as if my reports would be a step away from what this forum is trying to achieve, but I understand your argument. I would rather just help when help is needed, that's just me. If I find a question regarding my niche, I will help out with the knowledge that I have.
As far as me saying anglers want topics about mainstream species, I don't recall saying that, rather just added that it would be a little more difficult to incite participation in a new member when he sees a majority of roughfish esque posts.
I was not throwing you under the bus in regards to the competition, rather just used an example, didn't realize that you did not participate, but your name can be swapped out with that of another species hunting angler participating in the contests.
When I am fishing during the summer I typically don't have the motivation to write up a report, nor do I really have the time to do much of a writeup. I would rather just answer questions that people may ask. I do every so often on OFF, just don't get too many bass related questions around here.
RE: Going forward in 2017 at OSF - 1 - MuskieBait - 01-30-2017 12:13 PM
I really don't get this perception that the majority of post are roughfish esque. We report the action as it is. It is what it is. For example...
ZippyFX went out looking for Pike and Muskie...but caught a gar instead. A picture of a fish is better than none, right? Or should we do what mainstream forums do...didn't catch a pike or muskie, caught a gar. Gar is not worthy of discussion or photo so we won't take a photo, will not discuss it and pretend that fishing sucked?
http://ontarioshorefishing.com/forum/Thread-Goo-Goo-Ga-Gar
Here's another one from me and FossilFish. We went out to catch Brown Trout and Brook Trout (and I even did it on the fly), and caught some Sculpin and Sucker as well. Should we make it "mainstream" to applease the crowds and omit the other species we caught? Or perhaps we should just write it as it is, based on what was significant to us, and keep it as true and real as it is?
http://ontarioshorefishing.com/forum/Thread-Karma-and-the-100th-Canadian-species
And OT is known to just go down to the river to catch anything and everything that wanted to bite. If on this day Smallmouth Bass were not cooperative (as we know he often fish spinners for them), but he caught a Common Carp and a RARE Bowfin, should he had held back that report in fear of making it roughfish esque? Because god-forbid Bowfin is not worthy.
http://ontarioshorefishing.com/forum/Thread-Rare-on-the-Lower-Grand-June-6-2016
Here's one from FossilFish and I. We went out specifically to find a Muskie for FossilFish. Water was too low and too warm and Muskies didn't want to bite. So we salvage the trip with some micros. Sure, we caught a few small Smallmouth Bass...but they are "too small to deem worth of pictures". Should we post small bass to make it mainstream appealing? Or are people not taking us seriously because our bass are smaller than the Muskie lures we were using? Maybe we just won't even post a report (which is what actually happened when FossilFish and I did a repeat trip in the fall, and I lost a nice fish that jumped out of the net...and FossilFish lost a fish at boatside, but that was it...so NO REPORT! Hey, look...that's how the forum gets zero participation, right?)
http://ontarioshorefishing.com/forum/Thread-Multi-species-with-the-master
Here's another one. Tweedwolfscream went out for Brook Trout, caught an unknown sculpin that needed ID. Is it wrong to post it or does it make this roughfish esque?
http://ontarioshorefishing.com/forum/Thread-Brookies-and-a-lifer-sculpin
Again...out for whatever bites...a Walleye and Silver Redhorse combo. Maybe ZippyFX shouldn't post his Redhorse?
http://ontarioshorefishing.com/forum/Thread-Oh-what-a-beautiful-morning
Just can't please ANYONE...
What's that saying...everyone has an anus...and they all stink?
I don't think any of us intentionally make it roughfish esque. Our intention is to make this forum as welcoming as possible. Everything is cool to report, everything is cool to discuss. And we do fish for EVERYTHING, from Muskies to Darters. You can do it all in one single day, and that's just cool. You can just fish for Bass and that's cool too. But we will try to encourage that if there's a Bowfin cruising by while you're Bass fishing, maybe toss a bait at it to spice up the day. Or maybe you'll just go out for Bowfin, see a Bass cruise by, toss a bait at it to spice up the day. There's no restriction. That's the beauty of fishing!
Maybe the change is to set a rule that only 1 roughfish post a month is allowed...and we'll plug the forum with discussion on how to use crankbaits for Bass, Pike and Walleye...
RE: Going forward in 2017 at OSF - 1 - OldTimer - 01-30-2017 01:21 PM
Thanks Guigia10 for your take on the topic. In retrospect I acknowledge the seeming evolution of the forum to a more rough-fish related site. However MuskieBait’s comments, on how most Ontario shore fishing in southern Ontario can yield a catch consisting predominantly of rough-fish, provides one explanation of what may have fueled some of this “evolution” as well as the overall repetitive image.
We must remember that lack of reports from a wide cross section of members (other than the current top contributors) throws gas on those fires.
On the reverse side – a concentration of reports (etc.) from a few can lead to boredom of the masses.
I suppose that some of my posts, articles, and reports are a factor here. Done quite innocently I might add……….. sadly my fishing venues, experiences and budget are limited these days. I shall purposely strive to fix this.
Possibly the creation of a sub forum devoted to rough fish may magnify the site’s seeming rough-fish image and further discourage alternate topic posts.
I doubt that any forum will ever see a multitude of “articles” posted - as such willing and motivated authors are few.
Also, I am certain that the ever increasing popularity of Facebook (and such) provides an easier, and a more self-gratifying option of displaying ones pride in your fishing prowess (AKA chest pounding) to friends, colleagues and the world. Tough competition for a following.
I see the bottom line for increased member active participation going forward as a need to change things and attempt to stay fresh - Not to endlessly do the same thing over and over again whilst anticipating a different result.
Change draws attention and hopefully pleased interest.
The posting of unusual catches, outsize catches, rare sightings, and oddities are always interesting and should be encouraged by all.
I love this sport. I believe that this site has value. Going forward I shall continue to greet, promote, advise, have fun, be crazy, annoy MB (grin), and participate as best and as much as I can – with a renewed outlook. I have no feelings of futility in this path forward. There is “No Fate”. I will change it up.
Getting back on the original topic of my thread – perhaps the multispecies challenge could go forward with any size fish from any and all species being allowed (as in the past) – but simply add a secondary structure for recognizing other achievements. This don’t change squat, it just adds something new. Hey - why not take a chance?
Lastly - It should be noted that it is highly unlikely that I will provide any prize to motivate people to “get desperate and start micro fishing just to win” the species challenge.……………….(Grin)…… the experiences are the priceless reward.
Cheers,
OldTimer
RE: Going forward in 2017 at OSF - 1 - MuskieBait - 01-30-2017 02:01 PM
Here's the common denominator for all forum participation...
EFFORT! Just like anything else in life...
The most common comments for the lack of participation is that...
"I have no time anymore to write reports and post pictures."
Yes...it does take time. Posting a fishing photo taken on the phone on FB or Instagram is almost instant.
Downloading photos from the camera to the computer, uploading to a host, linking them to the report...it can take 30min at best. It can take days in extreme cases (look who's talking!)
So yes...FB and Instagram is now the main avenue for sharing fishing successes. It is also the avenue for millenials who need INSTANT response.
"Hey, I'm not the lake now. Fish are not biting. What should I do?"
I've personally see a couple of online forums died because of low traffic after people moved to Facebook.
What are the changes going forward?
1) Post more things that people want to see...that's all. You need to attract an audience. Otherwise, you're just a social club. But you risk losing identity. Personally, I'm not going to change the way I fish, my interest or the way I write my report just to please people. I'm not here to please...just here to give what I can. As people always say on internet forum "No one is forcing you open that thread and read it. No one is forcing you to reply."
2) If it is helpful to the contest, the recognition of the biggest specimen of each species can be added. That's for people who think an 5" Largemouth Bass entry is "pathetic". So go nuts. Fight for top dog.
3) Move the minimum post back down to 5 posts...so people not longer feels incapable to post. Common complaints is that the 16 post minimum takes too long to accomplish...and people just lose interest. But really, you can still post in all areas. You just can't access reports. Is it really that important to access reports? What's the true motivation to reach the reports? (But on the other hand, that does explain the lack of "good job" from members on reports). We'll have lurkers just the same...if not more. But hey, you wanted changes to test things. Let's experiment for a year.
4) No prizes...oh well...participating will still be low. I will bet (with OT) my Rapala travel rod on that. Now here's the motivation for you, OT. Prove me wrong. Go out and recruit members and have them activity participating throughout 2017. It has to exceed 9 contestants (our highest year) and number of entries from each member must be greater than 10. If you can accomplished that, you get the rod. (See what I did there? Motivation...and it is a win-win for you)
5) Organizes a "Fishing with [username]" session. Take people to places you fish, share your technique, share your success. That's what TV shows do, no? But you have to be prepared to spill the beans to draw attention. That's what TUFA has done on our Facebook page. It's drawning membership and ACTIVE membership. But lately there has been backlash about increase garbage, increase pressure (less fishing success) and losing some members and less reports as the "cat is out of the bag". Maybe our first trip should be "Fishing with Oldtimer" on his favourite spot on the Grand.
RE: Going forward in 2017 at OSF - 1 - OldTimer - 01-31-2017 04:02 PM
(01-30-2017 02:01 PM)MuskieBait Wrote: 4) No prizes...oh well...participating will still be low. I will bet (with OT) my Rapala travel rod on that. Now here's the motivation for you, OT. Prove me wrong. Go out and recruit members and have them activity participating throughout 2017. It has to exceed 9 contestants (our highest year) and number of entries from each member must be greater than 10. If you can accomplished that, you get the rod. (See what I did there? Motivation...and it is a win-win for you)
Cool............... will review come Dec 31, 2017.
OT