(05-20-2014 04:41 PM)MuskieBait Wrote:  Check this out. I know how I'll spend my next $150 when I have it...

http://www.alanhawk.com/reviews/lth10.html

IMPORTANT NOTE: This reel is made in China...under the QC guidelines and standards of Fin-Nor, a company that had established for quality for quite some time. This is not your over-the-internet, eBay, AliExpress, Amazon seller that sells Chinese manufactured products without much reputation behind the company.

This is to say that don't judge everything based on the place of manufacturing, but rather who is designing and producing these products...and the product itself.

Even so, some reputable companies, like Abu Garcia, Penn and Quantum, make their products in China. And their Chinese made product is far inferior compared to products of the same company made in Sweden (Abu) or USA (Penn). You have to judge each product as its own case.

In this case, the Fin-Nor Lethal 100 is a win. Probably none of the members here will ever get a reel that size to use...but it is an illustration that China made goods are not always bad...although most are pretty bad the majority of the time. It depends on the decision the company made in the design and standard of the product.

** Seriously...brass and stainless steel gearing...and secondary dog clutch...and all sealed bearings...and high number of carbon washers...no-fail magnetic bail...need I say more? Drool...

(04-08-2014 01:26 AM)MuskieBait Wrote:  Wow...I just had to reply...

Before you start mouthing off everything and putting Chinese manufacturing and government on the pedestal...

1) Chinese online sellers do not innovate...they STEAL original designs from other reputable companies like Shimano and Daiwa and produce cheap replicas of junk with poor material and workmanship. Support these crooks and you sell your integrity for a cheap discount.

2) Yes, Chinese online sellers use the internet to launder money. Yes, let's support dirty money and more of it...because it will make a better world and benefit the honest Chinese workers who earn next to nothing while these crooks take advantage of everyone that works for them or with them.

3) Yes, China has buying power and Chinese are taking over international properties and assets. So were the Japanese post war. Read a little about what happened to the Japanese when they spend most of their hard earned money to own Manhattan and the US...and see how that affected the failure of their economy and banking system. History lessons should be learned.

4) As someone working in the medical research field, and coworker with many Chinese-Canadians who used to hold prestigious positions in China including radiation oncologists, cardiologists, professors...etc, none of them are willing to conduct research in China...in a field where integrity is demanded and expected. Time and time again examples were shown where published results from China were fabricated and false results were reported. So much for improvement in quality in a field where human lives are at stake. If these professional cannot uphold integrity, forget the crooks such as businessmen.

Keep drinking the Kool-aid...

I'm not saying Chinese is not gaining economic and political positions in the world...but to say that supporting these online business is helping innovations and improvement in standard...it is laughable. You simply do not know what you are talking about.

And yes, I AM CHINESE and I do have family in Hong Kong and China and I do watch the CHINESE GOVERNMENT CONTROLLED news. The things that goes on in China scares me...and that's why I have very little interest in returning to and working in China unless for reputable international companies as a rep in China.

(05-21-2014 04:59 PM)MuskieBait Wrote:  Chinese online sellers are different from Fin-Nor using offshore manufacturing to produce their products.

Hypothetical example...

1) Fin-Nor seek Chinese manufacturer to produce the Lethal reel.

2) Fin-Nor places tight QC standards on material sourced, machining process, assembly quality...etc and makes sure the manufacturer complies...and hopefully...if a bad batch arise...then Fin-Nor does not release the poor batch into market...and if consistency is poor Fin-Nor would seek new manufacturer to comply with standards.

3) Fin-Nor sells these high quality reels to the consumers.

Everything is fine up until here. Perfectly honourable business practices using international economics to increase efficiency (moving offshore decreases labour, material and capital cost to increase profit...it's economics...live with it). I don't see any issue really...until the following...

4) Chinese manufacturer of the Lethal reel takes the design plans from Fin-Nor without permission.

5) Manufacturer source low quality materials and use low quality assembly practices to produce significantly inferior product.

6) Manufacturer slightly modifies several obvious features (eg. areas that were ported out to reduce weight is now not ported), put on different paint scheme or plating scheme and call this a "new" design reel..."original"...Chinese domestic designed and manufactured.

7) Manufacturer sells these reels online such as Amazon, eBay or AliExpress.

See the issue here?

It is perfectly fine if Shimano, Daiwa or Fin-Nor wish to move their production offshore as long as quality of product is maintained...nothing wrong with that (you can argue about losing jobs...etc...but then North Americans are not willing to work for the wages and under the standards of their Asian counterparts...don't blame Asian labourers for being accommodating). I'm even fine if a Chinese manufacturer did design their own products and sell it as it is...nothing wrong with that...even if it is cheaper quality...as long as they are honest in their practices and honourable in it.

The issue I have is the secondary underhanded "black market" products and how they come about. My comments are on the unreputed online sellers that claimed to design and produce their own quality products when all they do is to steal other's design, use poor quality raw material, slab on a new painting scheme and slab on their name, and sell it like it was their own.

For example...

http://www.alanhawk.com/reviews/tebse.html

Which is entirely "based" (copy) from the Stella SW...with a few cost cutting modifications...

http://www.alanhawk.com/reviews/stlsw.html

But if you read the reviews, you see the deficiencies...

My further issue is the consumers of these goods standing by these online manufacturers and supporting their cause like it is something good and holy.

---

What's even more atrocious? Companies claiming a US made product when in fact it was ordered from Chinese OEM company...off the shelf with slight modifications on looks...now that's a new low...

http://www.alanhawk.com/reviews/cny65.html

See how all that works?

(05-22-2014 07:49 PM)MuskieBait Wrote:  Then I wish you luck finding a Canadian reel manufacturer for spinning and casting reels...not simply Canadian owned company...but Canadian designed and manufactured products. Yes, there are Canadian companies that makes fly reels and centerpin reels. As far as I know, such thing is like the limit of some math functions...DOES NOT EXIST.

The best we have for North American made is Penn, Accurate, Avet, Van Staal and ZeeBass being "common"...South Bend, Pflueger and Shakespeare "sold out" long time ago already...and most of the spinning reels that Penn produced as well as many of the low end conventional gear are also offshore produced too. You won't get a US made Penn unless you are willing to spend on a Torque ($660 for the spinner or $450 for the star drag), selected Senator reels such as Baja Special, 116L and 117L, or the Penn International series of reels.

Unless you are willing to shell out at least $200 for a reel (Avet SX being the cheapest US made reel from that list of manufacturer), good luck trying to find a cheaply priced reel that is US made.

Like I said...there's a difference between supporting Penn's offshore production reels vs. AliExpress user XYZ's reel.

Until that time, you're just buying offshore products...and crying over spilled milk about offshore production. Good luck finding the unicorn (cheap, quality, Canadian).