2014 Multi-Species Challenge Proposal

[MuskieBait]

(04-09-2014 03:53 PM)OldTimer Wrote:  MY "back" EDIT - BTW - back editing your comments after I respond is not so cool. The above quote represents your original complete post.

I've added comments to my position...and I have not taken anything away. In addition, I moved my quoted comments forward to make it more logical than my original response. What's not so cool about it?

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(04-09-2014 04:09 PM)OldTimer Wrote:  

(04-09-2014 04:04 PM)MuskieBait Wrote:  Personally, I don't even see the rules posted for the 2014 OMC...so we can argue away all we like since there were no official rules.

I asked to have the rules considered and posted but no action had been taken yet. In fact, no decision and deliberation had been made yet. What you and I are quoting are all personal opinions...and we all know how the saying goes...it all stink...

So...let's start pointing some fingers

Like I said, my position is still the same...and at the same time, I'm trying to make it inclusive for all members.

end of & original response is above.

Your show.

OT

Unfortunately, these original responses means squat because nothing has been officially approved and posted.

If all the bantering at City Hall and everything said is considered official before they were voted and approved, then we'll be in a lot of trouble.

I don't see any of the previous discussion as official...because I DON'T SEE OFFICIAL RULES posted anywhere. It is that simple.

This is WHY I asked the contest mods to post the rules on the 2014 Contest homepage so the rules are there to be viewed and followed as soon as you click on the contest page. We do not see it there. And the rules are buried in an isolate thread discussing about the contest but no decision has been made official.

How does a new member join the contest if they had not been following a discussion that was several months old? How do they even begin to know where to search for it? As I see it, the only rule so far is that contest begins on March 15.

[OldTimer]

(04-09-2014 04:16 PM)MuskieBait Wrote:  

(04-09-2014 03:53 PM)OldTimer Wrote:  MY "back" EDIT - BTW - back editing your comments after I respond is not so cool. The above quote represents your original complete post.

I've added comments to my position...and I have not taken anything away. In addition, I moved my quoted comments forward to make it more logical than my original response. What's not so cool about it?

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(04-09-2014 04:09 PM)OldTimer Wrote:  

(04-09-2014 04:04 PM)MuskieBait Wrote:  Personally, I don't even see the rules posted for the 2014 OMC...so we can argue away all we like since there were no official rules.

I asked to have the rules considered and posted but no action had been taken yet. In fact, no decision and deliberation had been made yet. What you and I are quoting are all personal opinions...and we all know how the saying goes...it all stink...

So...let's start pointing some fingers

Like I said, my position is still the same...and at the same time, I'm trying to make it inclusive for all members.

end of & original response is above.

Your show.

OT

Unfortunately, these original responses means squat because nothing has been officially approved and posted.

If all the bantering at City Hall and everything said is considered official before they were voted and approved, then we'll be in a lot of trouble.

I don't see any of the previous discussion as official...because I DON'T SEE OFFICIAL RULES posted anywhere. It is that simple.

This is WHY I asked the contest mods to post the rules on the 2014 Contest homepage so the rules are there to be viewed and followed as soon as you click on the contest page. We do not see it there. And the rules are buried in an isolate thread discussing about the contest but no decision has been made official.

How does a new member join the contest if they had not been following a discussion that was several months old? How do they even begin to know where to search for it? As I see it, the only rule so far is that contest begins on March 15.

Original above

REALLY?

(02-24-2014 05:51 PM)Giuga10 Wrote:  

2014 OSF Multi-Species Challenge

Contest Judge: Giuga10

Start: March 15th, 2014
End: December 31st, 2014

To participate simply create a new thread in this forum titled:

[your username]'s 2014 OSF Multi-Species Challenge Entries

Rules:

• All fish species (native, introduced, invasive, micro) count.
• Fishing locations restricted to Ontario ONLY.
• All fishing methods are allowed.
• All fish must be caught legally. Within open season of that species. Fish must be caught on hook and line only. NO snagging, bowfishing, or netting. Fish must be caught within waters open for fishing for the particular species (no sanctuaries or targeting fish that has year round closures).
• No exceptions for incidental catches (that is, if you were fishing for Rainbow Trout during open Trout season and you caught a Bass when Bass season is still closed, you cannot count the Bass when it is caught out of season at that location).
• A species entry can only be counted when photographs clearly show identifying characteristics. A blurry picture will disqualify the species entry.
  
  

For fish identification help see this thread: http://ontarioshorefishing.com/forum/Thr...tification (Big thanks to OldTimer for that)

If you have any questions or comments PM Giuga10.

Message from the Mod:

Although I proposed this competition I would still like to participate in it. Do you guys have any problems with me participating in it since I'm the moderator?

[MuskieBait]

OT, you fail to realize that it was a proposed contest. After Nick posted that, there were discussions following whether only Ontario catches are allowed or not. This included you and I in the discussion. And again, no official rules had been posted yet.

If, as you stated, that time stamp matters, then note that February 24 is before March 2.

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Again, I'm not an official mod for this year contest...otherwise, all this would have been clarified already.

But I do know for a fact that Michael's Burbot was caught in Quebec, and so were Eli's Burbot and Lake Whitefish. Since the contest mods (Michael and Nick) are not doing their job...and even Michael himself was entering out-of-province catch and turning a blind eye on Eli's out-of-province catch, I got to point it out or else there will be unfair bias applied.

I'm also not sure where Eli caught his Brown Trout and not sure if it is out-of-season or not.

I'm trying to make it fair and right for all...yet not piss too many people off. Again, once Eli move to Quebec, that will be his home province. Technically, if the rules you quoted are THE ONE as you state (which has not been approved by mods yet), then Eli can no long join unless he travels to Ontario to fish just for the contest. But if that's the case, then he's technically traveling out of home province to catch fish just for the contest...which is really what we are against in the first place. Hm...catch-22....

To Eli and Michael: I don't want to piss you off...but we do have to play fair. I've been keeping quiet for a while on it...but I think we do have to make it fair for all. I know it sucks. Personally, as I said, I like to be inclusive for all...including Eli and ZippyFX who live just across the border from Quebec...and a 10 minute drive across the Ottawa River into Quebec should also be considered home range. That is a shorter distance for you to travel than the almost 4 hours I've traveled to catch a Burbot and Lake Whitefish in northern Ontario. To be honest, your catches are even more local than mine in terms of distances...so how is that fair to me but not to you? After all, Eli, the distance you traveled to catch your Burbot and Lake Whitefish, which is just about 1.5 hours away, is shorter than it takes for a member from Cambridge to fish at Cooks Bay on the southern end of Lake Simcoe. So I don't know how it is even remotely fair to you and Zippy. But you can see my position. Whether the decision tips one way or another, I'm just doing this in the name of fairness and it is not personal at all. If it was personal, I would say hell with it and every species count...and then I would dominate

[Eli]

My brown trout was from zone 18, so fully legal.


I personally feel the contest should be limited to each individual's home waters and that 'home waters' in this case should be up to each individual's personal interpretation. We can all keep things reasonable. I'll be on the far East Coast in a few weeks. Clearly none of my catches from that trip will be entered. If I catch a (legal!) sturgeon from the Quebec side of the Ottawa River, I should be able to enter it..I mean come on! Like I said, let's keep it reasonable. This isn't some high-stakes contest, it's all in good fun.

[MuskieBait]

What if my definition of "home waters" is "anywhere on Earth"?

Of course, I'm just being facetious...but "home waters" needs to be defined as well to be fair. What Michael, you and I are willing to travel and to catch is far more than the average members here. We're crazy nutjobs...many here are not.

Like you said, this is not a high-stake contest and it is all in good fun. It should not be this difficult. If we want to be inclusive to all in the name of fun, then rules should be more lax instead of more stringent.

[MichaelAngelo]

Wow what a mess that has arisen from a simple "just for fun" contest. I'll edit my entries to remove the burbot and I apologize if I caused offense to any of you by entering a fish that was caught in Quebec. Just like in Ontario, burbot has no regulation or season, so I figured it would be a harmless addition to my species list. Clearly it has caused offense that I did not intend. All I can do is apologize and move on.

(04-09-2014 04:30 PM)MuskieBait Wrote:  But I do know for a fact that Michael's Burbot was caught in Quebec, and so were Eli's Burbot and Lake Whitefish. Since the contest mods (Michael and Nick) are not doing their job...and even Michael himself was entering out-of-province catch and turning a blind eye on Eli's out-of-province catch, I got to point it out or else there will be unfair bias applied.

I'm also not sure where Eli caught his Brown Trout and not sure if it is out-of-season or not

(04-09-2014 04:30 PM)MuskieBait Wrote:  To Eli and Michael: I don't want to piss you off...but we do have to play fair. I've been keeping quiet for a while on it...but I think we do have to make it fair for all. I know it sucks.

Well, at least you're keeping us accountable. Other members do not have to deal with such accountability . Fair? LOL

(04-09-2014 05:45 PM)Eli Wrote:  I personally feel the contest should be limited to each individual's home waters and that 'home waters' in this case should be up to each individual's personal interpretation. We can all keep things reasonable.

[quote='Eli' pid='12557' dateline='1397079911']This isn't some high-stakes contest, it's all in good fun.

(04-09-2014 06:09 PM)MuskieBait Wrote:  Like you said, this is not a high-stake contest and it is all in good fun. It should not be this difficult. If we want to be inclusive to all in the name of fun, then rules should be more lax instead of more stringent.

Agreed, but I can see how different fishing seasons in other provinces may complicate things. Nick made his decision for a reason. However, if the fish is a species that would just as well belong in Ontario we have no way of knowing when and where it was caught. This is just a fact. We made a decision to do away with the badge this year. The reason I am mentioning these two things is because it illustrates that this contest operates on the honour system, and it is just for fun. We shouldn't be hanging each other out to dry over it, but we shouldn't be trying to deceive other members. Catch 22.

The way I see it? Just post gorgeous pictures of gorgeous fish for your fellow members to enjoy, smile, and have fun.

[MuskieBait]

Well, when the honour system is not operated with honour...it shows how the system fails...even if we are all honourable Canadians

I'm just pointing out the issues.

Yes, because I'm kept up-to-date with your catches, and Eli's catches, through personal communications, I'm most aware of the happenings. It is hard for me to keep track of other member's entries...and that is up to Nick this year to keep everything fair. But to say that you and Eli had to be more accountable than others due to my clarity of the issue, which is then making it seems less fair for you two, is not true. I kept everything completely unbiased last year and I'm trying to uphold the same standard this year. That is the fairness I see. I am just as critical about entries this year as a participant as I am last year as a non-participating contest judge. You can remember several occasions where I asked for clarifying pictures and even disqualified entries...and I also kept you honest on entries that lacked badges.

As I said to Michael in our personal communication...even forum owner should not get a free pass...in fact, forum owner should set a proper example in the contest...if there are rules, then it should be applied to all equally...fair is fair...regardless of friendship or forum ownership or forum seniority.

The example made here is that 1) honour systems is not often honourable even for a "fun" contest, 2) lack of a good monitoring system will cause grievances, and 3) people call it fun and games but the games are taken more seriously and with less fun.

If this is a fun contest, then there should be no need to deceive or omit. Since this is a fun contest and nothing is at stake here (aside from bragging right of course ), then there should even be less incentive to deceive...but yet, here we are with this discussion. Boy, if there were prizes, this would get downright ugly! Thankfully there are no prizes.

Again, I agree with Eli's view point that "home waters" should be considered, thus I have no issue with Eli's entries initially. But driving 6 hours to fish outside of Ontario certainly isn't considered "home waters". Driving 10 minutes to fish outside of Ontario is a different story though.

I'm trying to uphold the honour in the system. Public stoning is sometimes required. Shoot me if you like

[mcfly]

Reading all this hurts my brain lol.... im going fishing

[Eli]

THIS IS WHY QUEBEC WANTS TO SEPARATE!!!!!1111

[MuskieBait]

(04-09-2014 09:41 PM)Eli Wrote:  THIS IS WHY QUEBEC WANTS TO SEPARATE!!!!!1111

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(04-09-2014 08:11 PM)MichaelAngelo Wrote:  The way I see it? Just post gorgeous pictures of gorgeous fish for your fellow members to enjoy, smile, and have fun.

Words...all words...where is the action? You have many gorgeous pictures of gorgeous fish for fellow members to enjoy, smile, and have fun...yet where are all the missing icefishing reports? Where are you recent kayak fishing reports? Where is your Florida report?

Action speaks louder than words...Slacker.