Two Lines or One.

[OldTimer]

Regarding the number of fishing lines allowed in Ontario for fishing.

I’ve been pondering the logic of the current situation and conclude that the existing rules are a bunch of discriminatory hooey.

I really don’t buy any reasons, whatsoever (and I’ve heard ‘em all), why anglers fishing in open Great Lakes waters, or ice fishing should be granted enhanced opportunities to catch fish by being able to use two lines………. like…….. Really……. we all pay taxes (lots)……… we all buy a similar priced licences……we are Ontario residents… aren’t we ALL worthy to do so?

Why are we soft water anglers, who are the majority of anglers, being unfairly treated? $ spent on soft water non Great Lake fishing, or non-ice fishing, vastly outweighs the current “privledged “ two line anglers.

Please note that I might never actually use 2 lines, but being restricted burns my butt.

I think the rules should be the same for all…………. One or two lines…….. either way I’m good with one rule………. if it’s an universal regulation.

Comments?

Cheers,

OldTimer

[Giuga10]

In some situations for myself I would find using two lines beneficial, cat fishing and carp fishing. I agree with you that whatever the rule may be, make it equal, there shouldn't be exceptions for hardwater and open great lakes fishing. One rule should apply to all.

[MuskieBait]

Hardwater (icefishing) is a vertical presentation. It is MUCH HARDER to cover any amount of water with just one line. In fact, even two lines is very restrictive when fishing on the ice.

Softwater is a horizontal presentation most of the time. With one cast, you can cover much more water than any ice angler can cover with one drop. Just think about it. One cast can be 30-50 yards on average. When you fan cast an area, you can cover a 40 x 40 yard square easily within 5 casts. When you are icefishing, how many holes do you need to drill and fish vertically to cover that much water?

Trolling on the Great Lakes is all about covering water. Again, due to the depths of the lake and the various depths where fish may be found, using one line is extremely restrictive. When my friend and I fish a spread, we may have one line at 75 FOW with a downrigger, dodger and a herring strip. Then we may have another line at 55 FOW with a downrigger, dodger and a spoon. The last two lines are usually a copper line with a spoon that is fished far out (100+ yards behind the boat), and a flatline with a spoon high up to cover the top 20 feet of water. With one line, you are only covering one thin depth area at a time.

In most of the softwater fishing, you are either casting a bait or a lure. A few cast will effectively work an area quickly and you really do not need two lines.

For shore anglers, I can see the restriction of just one line. But then again, you can definitely quickly fish an area to find the hotspot and cast over and over again at the spot to catch fish.

[OldTimer]

I'm not real good at casting/retrieving 2 rods at the same time............ you?

2 lines in the Great Lakes came about not so long ago after Pacific salmon fever began - as a political crowd appeasing offering to Lake O boat owners/anglers & cities along the coasts to enhance the tourism $.... and a financially driven gesture for charter boats owners in all the Great Lakes..... it had zilch to do with how tough it was............. it was $$$$$$ and votes.

You missed consideration of bait fishing. This is where the crux of the inequality of the current regulation lies.

Cheers,

OldTimer

[MuskieBait]

(03-05-2014 03:09 PM)OldTimer Wrote:  I'm not real good at casting/retrieving 2 rods at the same time............ you?

2 lines in the Great Lakes came about not so long ago after Pacific salmon fever began - as a political crowd appeasing offering to Lake O boat owners/anglers & cities along the coasts to enhance the tourism $.... and a financially driven gesture for charter boats owners in all the Great Lakes..... it had zilch to do with how tough it was............. it was $$$$$$ and votes.

You missed consideration of bait fishing. This is where the crux of the inequality of the current regulation lies.

Cheers,

OldTimer

Casting/Retrieving - you only need to fish one rod at a time for that. It is possible to have 2-3 or more rods all rigged up with different lures and cover an area quickly with multiple presentations within a relatively short period of time. No need for 2 rods fished at the same time.

I'm not sure how people fish bait. There are different presentation even with bait. Live bait does not necessarily imply a stationary presentation.

A live minnow or leech bounce on the bottom in the current is just as active and effective (if not significantly more I would argue) as fishing a lure. You do not need to sit that live bait pinned on the bottom stationary.

Live bait fished under a float rig can be just as active. Crappie anglers are good example of fishing pinhead shiners or section of worms under the float with a pull, pause, pull, pause cadence. This allows the angler to cover water effectively, especially weedlines and bulrush edges where crappies hole up. You can't work two rods in that situation either.

Live bait on a jighead is popular for walleye and smallmouth bass. You can bump that along any bottom. Again, you can't fish with two rods at a time anyways, but you can effective cover water just as well.

The ONLY situation where I do see a need for two or multiple rods is carp fishing where it is a stationary presentation and you do need it to cover water.

Most people think sitting a live bait in one spot is a sure way to catch fish...but if there are no fish around, it doesn't matter how lively and attractive your fish may be...and how effective that presentation could be. Even with live bait, you need to fish actively to find fish and to catch fish.

[OldTimer]

(03-05-2014 04:47 PM)MuskieBait Wrote:  

(03-05-2014 03:09 PM)OldTimer Wrote:  I'm not real good at casting/retrieving 2 rods at the same time............ you?

2 lines in the Great Lakes came about not so long ago after Pacific salmon fever began - as a political crowd appeasing offering to Lake O boat owners/anglers & cities along the coasts to enhance the tourism $.... and a financially driven gesture for charter boats owners in all the Great Lakes..... it had zilch to do with how tough it was............. it was $$$$$$ and votes.

You missed consideration of bait fishing. This is where the crux of the inequality of the current regulation lies.

Cheers,

OldTimer

Casting/Retrieving - you only need to fish one rod at a time for that. It is possible to have 2-3 or more rods all rigged up with different lures and cover an area quickly with multiple presentations within a relatively short period of time. No need for 2 rods fished at the same time.

I'm not sure how people fish bait. There are different presentation even with bait. Live bait does not necessarily imply a stationary presentation.

A live minnow or leech bounce on the bottom in the current is just as active and effective (if not significantly more I would argue) as fishing a lure. You do not need to sit that live bait pinned on the bottom stationary.

Live bait fished under a float rig can be just as active. Crappie anglers are good example of fishing pinhead shiners or section of worms under the float with a pull, pause, pull, pause cadence. This allows the angler to cover water effectively, especially weedlines and bulrush edges where crappies hole up. You can't work two rods in that situation either.

Live bait on a jighead is popular for walleye and smallmouth bass. You can bump that along any bottom. Again, you can't fish with two rods at a time anyways, but you can effective cover water just as well.

The ONLY situation where I do see a need for two or multiple rods is carp fishing where it is a stationary presentation and you do need it to cover water.

..................Channel Catfish and Bullheads?

.................... dead bait for Pike

............................ suckers and redhorse?

............................................any and all bobber fishing

..... etc.

OT

[MuskieBait]

(03-05-2014 04:52 PM)OldTimer Wrote:  ..................Channel Catfish and Bullheads?

.................... dead bait for Pike

............................ suckers and redhorse?

............................................any and all bobber fishing

..... etc.

OT

Maybe my methods of fishing is different from yours...

Channel catfish - There are specific holes where the channels often sit in. Find the holes, and you do not need to sit a bait all day for them. In fact, if you are fishing in a river for channels, you simply need to place the bait slightly upstream of the hole and that bait will get whacked within a few minutes...if not less than a minute.

Bullhead - You can fish bullhead actively by walking a bait along the bottom. That's how I catch my bullheads. Walk, pause, walk, pause. They do have territories, especially when spawning. If you sit a bit there all day in a spot where it is not even remotely close to a bullhead's territories, you'll not catch it.

Deadbait for pike - Sure, two rods can help...but you can also slowly move that deadbait along to find your pike. Fishing a deadbait under a float is what I have in mind.

Suckers and redhorse - Seriously? Again, these are usually river fish. They sit in specific locations in the current (or out of the current). Find the spot, and you can cast back to the same spot over and over again and catch them pretty quickly...or bottom bounce your worm to them...or drift the worm under a float to them. They are river fish...they are used to picking off drifting bait. The key is to find out where they hold. Once you find out, it doesn't take long to catch them. Eli and I experienced that last time in Ottawa when the Shorthead Redhorse were sitting on a rocky shoal in the middle of the river. Unless you have the bait right on the shoal, you're catching squat. As soon as you move the bait on the shoal, WHAMMO! It was so fast and furious that at times we wouldn't even have time to put the rod into the rod pod.

Bobber fishing - Again...why does bobber fishing always imply stationary? You can use a search pattern with bobber fishing...and when you do so, you can only handle one rod at a time.

I fished for everything you mention with all the methods you mentioned...and still I believe you don't need more than one rod at a time...

[OldTimer]

I didn't say "need" - I said "fair and equal across the board".

Opinions vary............... and they may not match ours.............. "that's just the way it is"..... grin.

Cheers,

OldTimer

[MuskieBait]

Let me ask you then...

Someone fishing a lure can only realistically fish one rod at a time (except for trolling which is a hands-off approach). Someone fishing bait, as per your stationary and hands-off techniques, can theoretically fish as many rods as they can handle.

If we are speaking "fair and equal", then it is UNFAIR to the lure angler, that the bait angler can fish that many rods at a time, with that many hooks in the water to maximize his/her chance...because remember...you are allowed 4 hooks on the line...so theoretically, you can fish something like a sabiki rig and maximize your chance with multiple hooks...

That's what I would argue for the basis of "fair and equal"...

In fact, the bait angler is really just a small subset...because I can count many anglers who partake in different techniques where it is only realistically possible to fish one rod at a time (bottom bouncing, float fishing, fly fishing, vertical jigging...etc). As such, the inequality is much greater AGAINST EVERYONE ELSE but the bait anglers...

Again, you can't compare icefishing with softwater fishing...it is two different animals...it is apples to oranges...because you can't simply cover water in a horizontal manner (more than a few feet in diameter) under the ice without turning the entire surface into swiss cheese...and that is a dangerous proposition for people who need to travel on such ice...

[OldTimer]

Commercial surf fisherman in the USA fish 10 to 16 rods regularly..... with no sweat at all.

And ... my complaint is about the regulation fairness to ALL styles , all places, all anglers, ALL ages - not your, or my, or their abilities....... or how used ........ and when and where - just that it should be ALL the same.

BTW - I would go as far as to say that the great majority of anglers (of ALL ages and styles) fish bait, and not lures.

Cheers,

OldTimer