Fishing Licensing Exams?

[Chromance]

(10-11-2012 06:59 PM)MichaelAngelo Wrote:  

(10-11-2012 06:33 PM)OldTimer Wrote:  Such negative thoughts............ lighten up!

It really is supposed to be a fun pastime.

Yes there are jerks - but they are everywhere............. not just in angling.

If we had no salmon - all these complaints would vanish........... hmmmmm..............

And I personally believe that the overwhelming vast majority of anglers are nice law abiding guys just like us.

The glass is half full............... really really................

How many phone calls have you made to report things? ....................Truthfully.......... Not part of the solution........then......etc. etc.

If you don't agree - please advise the size of soap box you wish - for all your rants in public...............smile

Cheers,

OldTimer

LOL good one OT.

I know calls to the TIPS hotline don't seem to help, but if they get repeated calls about a certain area they definitely check things out.

I don't think implementing an exam for fishing licencing is a bad idea. I think it's a great idea and would show that Ontario is serious about conserving itself as the global freshwater fishing capital!

edit: they do this for hunting... why not fishing? why not? I know I'm one to complain about the onslaught of testing required to obtain a Drivers Liscence in Ontario. Nevertheless, I strongly feeling that a licencing exam and increased signage would help promote conservation.

edit2: I put this in a new thread as I would really like to hear everyone's feedback on this issue .

Well folks I think I have to disagree, not because it's not a good idea. But because I don't trust the government to enforce this without us paying more just to enjoy something that shouldn't be licensed in the first place. Just my opinion, and I'm entitled to it!

[OldTimer]

They sell marriage licences too..............smile

[beaser]

Several issues come to mind.
Cultural differences are a factor. I'll be enjoying my day fishing when a beat up old van pulls up and several loud people jump out asking if the fish are biting. They fan out, to return grumbling in some gutteral language that I don't understand. They jump into the van and take off. When I walk around the corner I see the empty wrappers and coffee cups laying on the ground.

The big v hull comes planning down the river throwing a wake that threatens to sink the kayaks, canoes and inflatables. They cut the egine and cruise into the sand at the bottom of the canoe launch ramp. they also cut across me and my buddies line. They finally pack up and leave wasting far too much of everyone elses time.

The worst I've seen is the long neck of a swan dragging on the ground. Tell me any man could be that ignorant not to know that he was shooting such a majestic not to mention a protected species.

For every person that fits these descriptions I've met several dozen people that are kind and helpful./ I guess when people take the situation too far there should be some way to enforce proper conservation ethics but what's being suggested is a my way or the highway approach.

Over legislating a sport isn't the answer. The gang of rapers and pillagers will still do their worst regardless of licensing requirements. Enforcement is the only option.

I think the key is being able to call for intervention and having it followed through in a timely manner.

[MichaelAngelo]

(10-24-2012 01:00 AM)Chromance Wrote:  Well folks I think I have to disagree, not because it's not a good idea. But because I don't trust the government to enforce this without us paying more just to enjoy something that shouldn't be licensed in the first place. Just my opinion, and I'm entitled to it!

I would also be weary of inviting further government involvement of my activities, but do you think that hunting should be licensed?

Also, does the act of obtaining a hunting licence stop the bad apples from poaching anyways?

Valid points made by you and beaser.

However, for those who are "on the fence" about caring about fishing regulations, at least they will be forced to read them and know they exist. Ignorance about fishing regulations is pretty rampant, from what I can tell at least.

Having regulation booklets available at tackle shops, wide in the open, with signs about $25,000 and $50,000 fines nice, big and bold would be a nice start .

I also didn't receive any copy of the regs when I bought my fishing license... like what!? The regs should come with your liscence and there should be a sticker on your outdoors card informing you to read the regs...

That's the least I can see the government doing to help the situation.

[MuskieBait]

No fishing license and zero regulation is what you get in third world and developing worlds.

Have you fished in Southeast Asia where the shorelines are completely depleted of large fish? Sure, pollution is a big factor, but anything else that can survive the pollution is quickly caught and killed.

Because there were no fishing regulations in many countries in Asia, that unregulated catch and kill mentality is already deep in the immigrants.

Now, I'm not saying it's just immigrants doing this. Canadians are also doing this, especially in some small towns where people seem to think they can just get away with things because Conservation Officers are less likely to show up...

[MichaelAngelo]

(10-25-2012 09:05 AM)MuskieBait Wrote:  No fishing license and zero regulation is what you get in third world and developing worlds.

Have you fished in Southeast Asia where the shorelines are completely depleted of large fish? Sure, pollution is a big factor, but anything else that can survive the pollution is quickly caught and killed.

Because there were no fishing regulations in many countries in Asia, that unregulated catch and kill mentality is already deep in the immigrants.

Now, I'm not saying it's just immigrants doing this. Canadians are also doing this, especially in some small towns where people seem to think they can just get away with things because Conservation Officers are less likely to show up...

Everyone I've talked to from southeast asia has said the same thing: it's fished out.

Dseow just mentioned this to me last Wednesday as well. He told me stories of guys dragging one huge net across an entire body of water and keeping everything.

[MuskieBait]

Wow! There are certainly some conflicted wishes here...

First, people think there is a need for enforcement, but then they don't want "big brother" to watch over you. Enforcement IS using the "big brother" to watch over you. They cannot tell if you are fishing legally or not until they come to check you out. So on one hand you want peace and quiet while fishing, but the CO's should not come to bother you or care what you are doing. Hm...

Next, people want enforcement but fishing should be a right and there should not be additional fees or license. Last time I checked, people don't work for free and gas is $1.30/L. All of that cost has to come from somewhere. The fairest way is to "tax" a user fee with licenses. Thus the fishing licenses that we pay for support enforcement, stocking, rehabilitation and other related programs to maintain our natural resources. There is only so much tax money, and truthfully, I don't want the government to take my health and education money from my tax to pay something else that is not intended for that use (eg. building skateboard park...because I would never use it). Similarly, you cannot ask for the general public to use THEIR tax money to pay for YOUR fishing enforcement and fishing programs. They do not partake in fishing...you do...so if you want more, you gotta pay for it. No one works for free...I'm sure you don't. Volunteers and charity programs only goes so far. Other people have their own lives too.

Like I said, a lot of new immigrants do not have a shred of fishing conservation and ethics concepts because these concepts are not the norm within their countries. Some friends of mine from other countries (Asia, South America, Africa...etc) ask me why I catch fish and let them go...because to them, fishing is all about catching and eating...fishing is a means of survival...and in an impoverished country, if you have a big catch today, you would keep it all since you don't know how the next day would unfold. That is their survival mentality. We have our own sports and leisure fishing mentality. We can't completely fault them for it, but at the same time, we do need to let them know Canada has its own rules and regulations to follow. Similarly, in some parts of rural Canada, fish and wildlife is still a big part of the daily diet for first nations and non-first nations. That survival concept also runs deep. But that is also no excuse to allow keeping over limit.

Education programs will not come for free...unless we want to volunteer in programs to educate the current and future generations (ie...the Toronto Urban Fishing Ambassadors who just had an event yesterday at High Park to educate school children on this topic). If you want a wider reach, you need the government to get involved and use a blanket system (because otherwise, it will be considered as discrimination...I love being Canadian...). In order to do so, you need additional money in the coffers to do so...and if you want increased enforcement, you need more revenue from licensing...it's really just that simple.

Yes, in Canada, fishing is a right...or so many would like to think so. In many other countries, fishing is a privilege. In Europe, most areas are either privately owned with ridiculous club fees or public waters where licensing fees are very expensive. Fishing there certainly a privilege because only the "privileged" few can afford to fish there. In Bhutan, you can be executed if you fished in "Royal River" that is reserved for the royalty and their friends.

[OldTimer]

Who's on first,.............. what's on second.
I don't know.
He's on third base.

[MichaelAngelo]

I'll try to remember to phone the MNR tomorrow and ask them about how they make the regulations available to license holders. I don't remember getting any the last few times I bought a fishing liscence nor seeing them anywhere on the counters of tackle shops...

I think vouching for putting them in the hands of licence buyers and putting them on the counters of tackle shops would be a logical first step. It's not exactly preaching to the choir - someone can have a licence and still be clueless to the actual regulations.

[OldTimer]

I understand that big brother is necessary, but we don’t need more new regulation - simple enforcement of current laws would be quite suitable.

I am not upset at all in having to pay for a fishing licence. I did support its introduction many years ago. Without it there would have been no fish stocking whatsoever in the past or today.

In 2011 Ontario’s population was 12,851,821.

Over 900,000 resident fishing licences were active. If senior citizens and those under 18 were considered I imagine that we had at least 10% of the resident population legally able to fish. Non-resident licenced anglers would drive this number even higher.

I sincerely doubt that the majority of the above group are “bad” anglers………… otherwise we’ve got more than half a million licenced criminals running around out there……….. Totally unrealistic.

However considering this scope, and the probable numbers of “illegal” unlicensed anglers – does it not seem necessary for just a tad more active officers in the field than the several hundred we have now, who are spread thinly over this huge province.

Here's a picture of all the officers:

   

Not many............. is it?

Cheers,

OldTimer